Hey, it’s not every day that I get to post something that’s not only about the unspeakable issue of vaccines, but is both PRO-VAX and ANTI-VAX at the same time.
I mean, what’s the use of FREE SPEECH if we can’t use it to troll EVERYBODY – including PENCILNECK?
Whoops – WRONG PENCILNECK. Let’s try that again….
THERE we go. That’s “better”!
Schiffty don’t like what he calls “misinformation” about vaccines. Well, consider this an OPINION piece, kinda like a RESTAURANT REVIEW. You can’t “misinform” in an artistic review of “so bad they’re good” side effects. Particularly when the flavorful review is comin’ from a connoisseur of dark beers, overpowering “old man” colognes, shockingly compliment-getting retrograde fashions, and KICK-ASS IMMUNE RESPONSE.
Not to mention wife-appalling HAWAIIAN SHIRTS.
Yeah, think of this as a CRITICAL REVIEW of the Italian medical opera Vaccino Zoster Ricombinante Contro il Lupo. Which as you will see is not exactly Springtime for Shingles, but it gets the job done and has the POSERS and LIGHTWEIGHTS among the “appassionato di anticorpi” running for the DOORS.
“Immunity? You want IMMUNITY? You can’t HANDLE THE IMMUNITY!”
Yeah. And while that FAT LADY named Zoster Booster ain’t sung yet, the VIRAL TABLOID NEWS is running for the phones with the STORY OF THE CENTURY!
STAND BACK.
THIS TRAIN don’t carry no PENCIL.
I mean NONE.
Now,
you have to understand that I actually LIKE getting vaccinated.
I was in school when the POLIO vaccine came out, and mothers BEGGED to come to school to MAKE SURE their children got the vaccine. MOMS talked about polio all the time. And so did kids. We asked LOTS of questions:
- Why do those weird canes look like that?
- Why do they call it the March of Dimes?
- Can you still breathe in a wheelchair if you get polio?
- How bad is the iron lung?
- Was the president who had polio ever in the iron lung?
- Why doesn’t the vaccine help people who already got polio?
The first time I got vaccinated, I cried, like most of the kids. The second time, however, the nurse taught us that if we laughed before she stuck the needle in, it wouldn’t hurt enough to make us cry – and she was RIGHT. And while this wasn’t the FIRST psy-op taught to me, it would always remain one of the best and most useful.
We knew we had to get the vaccine. Nobody wanted to end up like the “cripples” – or “the handicapped” as one said in more polite company. They were everywhere. You could not go downtown – even in our small town – and not see them.
Some were from The War, or maybe Korea, but by the time they cured polio, there were more people disabled from polio – or at least it seemed that way.
My babysitter – or “sitter” “for short” – was born in the 1800s. She was old, but tough as leather, and sharp as a tack. Nowadays, she would be considered “remarkably spry”, but there were many tough old birds like her, back then. She could recite hundreds of Bible verses perfectly. She hadn’t just SEEN wagon wheels by the sides of barns like we did – she RODE in wagons – covered and uncovered – as her main mode of transportation – long after the first cars and trucks appeared. She had perfect memories of two Testaments, two World Wars, and every kid she ever “sat”.
Most of all, she had experienced almost every major communicable disease EXCEPT polio. She could tell you ALL ABOUT THEM. Everything you wanted to know. She may have been a nurse when she was younger – I don’t remember. She did indeed live a rather extraordinary life.
Her BIGGIE was SMALLPOX – and she had the scars to prove it. While not all smallpox scars look the same, hers appeared as big, roughly circular, dark brown spots on her arms, legs, hands, face, and neck. She had some on her body, too, that she swore were there, but never showed us.
Compared to many people with more “pock-like” smallpox scars, hers were not bad at all – really more like big moles or nevi, though not quite beauty spots, so she never saw fit to have them removed, even though such things had become possible by the 1960s.
She was PROUD of her scars, and GRATEFUL that God saw fit for her to live.
With such things not only known to all of us, but topics of casual discussion, the idea of not getting vaccinated was regarded not as some kind of option, but rather as a misfortune. As in, “Did you hear? Eleanor CAN’T get the vaccine – she’s allergic to it.” “Oh, no. I’m so sorry for her. Are they sure? Can’t they they come up with a different kind of vaccine for people like her?”
All of us got the smallpox vaccine. The smallpox vaccine would typically produce a big welt on your shoulder, which would then heal to a big scab and fall off, leaving a very typical SCAR. The vaccine scar was not nearly as bad as a smallpox scar. All the women and girls had the vaccination scar, except my sitter, who didn’t need it. Sometimes you had to look a bit to find the vaccination mark on a girl’s shoulder, but it was always there.
Here is a good link to learn more about smallpox and its cure by vaccination, as taught in the context of some Fake Entertainment television show about time travel.
LINK: https://www.outlanderanatomy.com/smallpox-and-the-devils-mark/
And HERE is where we are introduced to the ideas behind Retrosynthetic DINOPOX.
THE IDEA OF AVOIDING SMALLPOX
by INOCULATION – basically “special, controlled, intentional infection” – using the smallpox virus ITSELF is called “variolation”. Although people didn’t know that it was a VIRUS, they knew that certain types of exposure to smallpox were “less deadly” than others. In fact, the rather horrifying idea of “sniffing powdered smallpox scabs” or “scratching fluids from a smallpox infection into the skin” reduced the mortality from upwards of 30% (the exact figure depends on who one asks, and at what time in history one is talking about) to only 2%. This was definitely practiced in China in the 10th and 16th centuries, and may have been practiced about 2000 years earlier in India.
The idea is that you will definitely get it, but it will be mild and you almost always won’t die, knock on wood.
Controlled exposure to the deadly contagion, so that one might live.
The next powerful advance, however, was not variolation but vaccination – so named because it used the much less dangerous COWPOX to give immunity to both cowpox and smallpox.
Finally, nowadays, when vaccination for smallpox is done, it uses not cowpox but the related vaccinia virus, which again gives immunity to both cowpox and smallpox as well.
So now let’s talk about SHINGLES and the SHINGLES VACCINE.
Shingles is basically what chickenpox looks like when it COMES BACK FROM DORMANCY later in life. And chickenpox is a bit LIKE smallpox, but it is really a different beast, which is not protected against by the smallpox vaccination. It’s a WHOLE ‘NUTHER POX – and MUCH less serious.
The chickepox vaccine was a replacement for what WE had as children – CHICKENPOX PARTIES – in which all the moms would make sure their kids GOT CHICKENPOX at a “good age”, when the disease was mild, the child old enough to understand English, and the outcome assured – a LIFELONG immunity against chickenpox. Not only that – the “recurrence disease” of “shingles” – which does NOT present AT ALL like chickenpox – was not common for those who actually HAD chickenpox, and not the vaccine.
Shingles is NOT a fun disease. I’ve had it once, and it tried to come back at least once. The treatment was the same in all cases – ANTIVIRAL drugs to lessen the severity of the disease and then beat it back – something that actually works rather nicely.
The first time I had shingles, in my early 50s, it struck one of the upper quadrants of my head. I thought that I would be permanently disabled. I could not even think during the periodic bouts of debilitating head pain – which was accompanied by a kind of overall sensory nervous dysfunction – something a bit like electrical shock. I literally began retirement preparations, knowing that I would be unable to function in an office environment any longer.
I was very lucky that the antiviral drugs kicked in quickly, lessening the severity enough to work from home, and eventually ending the bout with no permanent nerve damage. Had it not been for antiviral drugs, I would have had to go on disability, or retire early.
When shingles tried to come back, I knew the early warning signs – which for me are certain very characteristic lesions – and I got the drugs immediately. It was a smart move. The disease backed off right away. And although it never progressed that far again, I did get periodic “super-early signs”, which told me shingles was still lurking, waiting to strike again.
SO – you can imagine why I might want to consider the shingles vaccine, despite SO many reports of nasty side effects.
Shingles SUCKS for Wolf. A mildly sucky vaccine is MY COWPOX.
Only – it’s not. There IS no cowpox for shingles.
However, the NEW shingles vaccine – a very high-tech combination of FAKE VIRUS (recombinant surface glycoproteins of the Herpes Zoster virus, expressed in cell cultures) and IMMUNE RESPONSE PROVOCATEURS (meaning adjuvants) – is just as good, if not better.
A good description of the vaccine itself is here:
https://www.rxlist.com/shingrix-drug.htm#description
A good description from a pharmacist’s viewpoint is here:
Like COWPOX, which offers lifetime immunity to SMALLPOX, but through a very mild ACTUAL disease exposure – DINOPOX is gonna make you a bit ill. HOWEVER, in my opinion, it’s a whole lot better than real shingles, and well worth the problems.
Note that dinosaurs can be bigger than cows and are theoretically related to chickens, which however have nothing to do with chickenpox. How the name “chickenpox” was attached to chickenpox is not entirely clear. So while Dinos being Retro to Chickens is TRUE but IRRELEVANT, the SYNTHETIC nature of the vaccine is both true AND relevant.
The surface glycoprotein – obtained through recombinant DNA technology – says “this is what to attack”. The TWO adjuvants – including a new and powerful tree bark substance, say “respond to this stuff DRAMATICALLY”.
What is VERY interesting, is that the symptoms of this “fake disease” caused by the “fake virus”, which gives one much better immunity than even SHINGLES ITSELF (think about that), are actually both a bit like chickenpox, and a bit like shingles, only MUCH, MUCH milder than either – IN MY CASE.
I am only talking about MY CASE. More on that later.
I experienced at first a dull, mild pain, then very minor swelling, and then creeping surface redness at the injection site, in my upper arm. The redness grew within a couple of days to about 4 inches in diameter. The redness – which was HOT TO THE TOUCH – was still visible, but slowly dissipating, after the better part of a week.
The injection area – my upper arm – looked and felt, quite frankly, like I had been hit with a line drive baseball – but without any initial pain or later bruising. There was no sharp pain like a bee or wasp sting, but there was a very persistent dull pain, much like that from blunt force trauma. It was somewhat itchy, but not unbearably. The redness resembled – well – chickenpox. It was kind of bright and lobster-like, and NOT terribly rash-like. People might call it a rash, but it was not like an allergic surface rash, which thypically includes both edema and inflammation.
I also got a couple of ACTUAL CHICKEN POX – one near the injection site, and one on a random place on my belly. The redness matched the injection site, and the pustules matched my memory of chickenpox.
The most interesting symptoms, however, were those that resembled my own prior case of SHINGLES. These included both a kind of general, mild, “electric shock” sensation, over my whole upper body and head, and a stronger, cranial upper-quadrant, “electric” neuralgia in the exact area where I had debilitating pain during my first case of shingles.
However – and this is important – I did NOT have the pain associated with shingles itself.
The characteristic lesions of my shingles attacks were also NOT present.
Overall, I think this is quite possibly the STRONGEST vaccination I have ever received. The immune response is clearly BIGGER than anything I have yet experienced.
SO……
knowing what I know now, would I recommend this shot?
I would say, for anybody in my shoes – one who has NOT had significant reactions to vaccines before, but who HAS had nasty experiences with shingles – that it is a BETTER option to take this new Shingrix vaccine, than to endure the far greater risks of shingles. That is just my opinion, but it IS my opinion.
Others need to weigh the risks without any recommendation on my part.
Use what you know. Think about it. Make an informed decision.
Here are some links.
Pay SPECIAL ATTENTION to the COMMENTS on the last one, where people who had negative side effects dumped a LOT of anecdotal information. This is NOT useful statistically, but it is EXTREMELY USEFUL to know the DOWNSIDE RISKS. These bad cases will PROBABLY NOT happen to you, but they COULD. This information is VERY USEFUL in – say – planning that trip with the non-refundable tickets.
You know what I’m sayin’? Yeah. You know what I’m sayin’.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/shingles-recombinant.html
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/vaccination.html
https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/downloads/shingles-factsheet-adults.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/downloads/shingles-factsheet-hcp.pdf
https://www.consumerreports.org/shingles-vaccine/new-shingles-vaccine-shingrix-what-you-should-know/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenpox
SO…..
My final verdict – FOUR out of FIVE STARS.
Yeah, Dinopox is all that, but I’m still waiting for something with a bag of chips.
W
My opinion? You really want to know my opinion? Well, okay then.
A pox on ALL vaccines. Unless they are all voluntary.
Violating the human rights of children by forcing alien substances into their bodies BEFORE they have developed enough to understand what is going on is despicable.
Chickenpox parties was the smartest thing ‘old wives’ ever created. Those who got chickenpox are almost immune to shingles due to constant re-affirmation of the immune system by being around other children who had had chickenpox. The immunity is stronger than the immunity from a vaccine.
So just call me a libertarian in the matter of body integrity and informed consent. FULLY informed consent.
LIKE!
I never understood why we developed the chickenpox vaccine.
You know, it’s entirely possible that LEAVING an endemic population of unvaccinated chickenpox “victims” (non-vaxxers) at a CERTAIN HIGH PERCENTAGE actually HELPS THE VACCINATED against shingles by providing a continuous CHALLENGE to stoke their weaker injected immunity.
Yes, that is exactly right. And thanQ for the oversized like. 🙂
WP ………………. again.
I never understood the fear of chickenpox before puberty, either. We all had it inside of three weeks one year. Some cases were worse than others, but nobody has had a problem since.
The Life Extention site has had an article about how there is a simple, inexpensive remedy for shingles that the pharmaceutical companies know about … but have decided is not worth the money/time/etc. to pursue approval by the FDA as a NDI.
Tagamet to Treat Herpes and Shingles
March 2001 By William Faloon and Kate Kitchen
Herpes simplex and herpes zoster are viral diseases that can be kept in remission by a healthy immune system. Direct evidence for this can be seen in cancer patients who undergo immune-suppressing chemotherapy and experience severe herpes outbreaks as a result.1 Similar herpes flare-ups occur in other immune-comprising situations such as normal aging, where a latent herpes zoster virus can reemerge to cause painful shingles.
While pharmaceutical companies promote expensive and only partially effective anti-viral drugs, there is evidence dating back more than 20 years that the drug cimetidine (sold over-the-counter as Tagamet) is highly effective in shortening the duration or preventing the outbreaks of herpes and shingles. The problem is that virtually no physicians are prescribing cimetidine to their herpes (or shingles) patients, despite persuasive findings in peer-reviewed scientific journals. …
https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2001/3/report_tagamet/page-01
More from the article…
At the Golda Medical Center in Israel, in 1994, a double-blind placebo-control study of cimetidine treatment versus placebo was conducted for one week in 22 patients with herpes zoster (shingles). Those who were treated with cimetidine were found to recover much more quickly from skin rash and pain than those who were given the placebo.5
At the Department of Neurology at Lady Davis Carmel Hospital in Israel, a randomized study evaluated the effect of cimetidine in the treatment of herpes zoster virus. The conclusion was that cimetidine treatment “shortened the median interval until the first decrease in pain, shortened the median interval until the complete resolution of pain and promoted faster complete healing of skin lesions….”6
A paper presented by a researcher at Michigan State University in the Department of Pediatrics and Human Development (1990) stated:7
“Suppressor T lymphocytes possess histamine2 (H2) receptors and contribute significantly to the function of the immune system. Cimetidine has been shown to enhance a variety of immunologic functions both in vivo and in vitro because of its inhibitory effects on suppressor-cell function. Successful tumor immunotherapy has been reported in experimental animals. Patients who received cimetidine were shown to exhibit enhanced cell-mediated immunity as evaluated by increased response to skin-test antigens, restoration of sensitivity following development of acquired tolerance, and increased responses of lymphocytes to mitogen stimulation. Patients also demonstrated that patients with herpes zoster and herpes simplex who were given cimetidine may have benefitted therapeutically from the drug.”
The consensus from these studies is that when cimetidine is administered to those with herpes simplex or shingles, the result is a dramatic relief of the herpetic pain as well as rapid disappearance of the blisters.
Fascinating. Thank you.
Interesting. question: ought one detox due to other ingredients after one’s body has calmed down from the initial reaction?
Some say activated charcoal, bentonite clays, bitters, or herbs from traditional Chinese medicine might be of help.
If you know a vaccine has aluminum, you will want to consider food grade clays and perhaps Volvic water. Volvic has been studied for lowering aluminum levels as it has a high amount of silica which apparently binds well to aluminum. However, some do not tolerate Volvic until they have lowered their body burden using clays first. Clays can also be used as a poultice over the injection site.
Didn’t know that about Volvic. Thanks.
Is this for after shingles or after a vaccine?
After any medical intervention, including vaccines, that involves injections or IVs in my opinion. (Also useful after other toxic encounters such as food poisoning.) I’ve stopped a bad headache in it’s tracks with 3 capsules of the food grade charcoal supplements.
Where do you get the bentonite clay and charcoal?
Health food store or online. Here are some iHerb.com links for you to get an idea of what to look for…
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Activated-Coconut-Charcoal-60-Vegetarian-Capsules/95230
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Yerba-Prima-Great-Plains-Bentonite-Detox-16-fl-oz-473-ml/4789
Also, this clay was studied/used to restore bone health of astronauts.
https://www.californiaearthminerals.com/terramin.html
Thanks, T3! I’ll read about it all.
I have been leery of herbs since a friend selling ‘all natural herbs’ sold me some ma huang. Man. First day I took one, I washed all the cars, cleaned the whole house and did the yard work. The second day, I had heart palpitations and thought I was going to die. Never again.
You’re lucky. That stuff has killed a number of people!
If I had not been fairly healthy and active already (doing my own house/yard work for years) it might have caused health crisis. Good thing I only took two pills.
She told me it was just leaves and dirt and all natural – that it would not hurt me. I had to tell her most poisons are just leave and dirt and all natural.
Would these help the immune system of my daughter who is 35 years past diagnosis with Friedreich’s Ataxia?
I am not familiar with your daughter’s diagnosis, but my own journey has taught me that reducing the body burden can improve neurological health. Also, improving diet choices to give the body more vitality seems to have been helpful for me.
A doctor made famous because of his work with patients with chronic neuro-immune conditions was of the opinion that you cannot separate neuro function from immune function.
There is also the unavoidable balancing act between inflammation and healing. No inflammation = no healing. Too much inflammation = collateral damage. Tumeric has been extensively studied for it’s effects in this area. You might want to check it out https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664031
What kind of Bitters, T3?
I personally don’t use bitters GA/FL so I can’t say much about them except to point you to another link where you can read reviews for yourself. Basically they seem to help the body’s elimination functions. So take note and be careful in their use.
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Abkit-NatureWorks-Swedish-Bitters-8-45-fl-oz-250-ml/3405
Wolf, I applaud your report. The beauty of INFORMED CONSENT is that you have a choice and you made the one that worked best in YOUR judgment. Bravo.
I would NOT wish the nerve pain and blisters of shingles on anyone. Just the fear of a recurrence could lower your immune response and bring one on if you are the type to easily stress.
Knowledge is power. So do note that you had no knowledge of an alternative remedy that is well studied and documented in peer reviewed medical literature. Therefore I am curious, if you have known about cimetidine, would you have tried it?
Maybe. I would compare the data to the antivirals for performance, and better still want to know at least one putative mechanism for how it worked, to lessen the chance of a bad study. Antivirals like the class I used have a strongly rational and understood mechanism. They act fast, and reversed pain quickly in my case. I’d want equal or better performance there.
To me one drug is as much of a risk as the other, which is not much from my own experience with both. The antivirals had no obvious side effects with me. Neither does cimetidine or similar.
There was a time in this country where one could not visit unless one was up on all shots including small pox.
When I came here in 1964 I had all those shots and all the paperwork with me translated from German to English by a NYC lawyer.
My doctor suggested I have the new shot for singles that seems more effective he said but one needs two shots.
The drugstore administers the shot or health department not the physician. My doc has pester me for years and I avoided the shot and now he tells me it was good because the new shot is more reliable. Medicare does not cover the cost that is about $200-$250. I am not sure if my sub will pay. I am going to subject myself to the shot after my visit to CT.
This is from Media Fact Sheet
The shot is called Shingrix (Zoster Vaccine Recombinant, Adjuvanted)
I have a fact sheet on the vaccine and safety of Shingrix.
Most importand one should not get the shot if one is alleging to any of its ingredient.
They do not say what the ingredient is .
Common side effects are:
1) Pain
2) Redness
2) Swelling at injection site
3) Muscle pain
4) Tiredness
5) Headache
6) Shivering
7) Fever
8) Upset stomach
Last they write Shingrix may not protect all individuals.
Eeck I might reconsider and let my husband go first.
I’m glad that I was “prepared for it to be really bad”, so that when it came through “just a little bad”, I wasn’t too worried. The usual OTC remedies make it a non-issue for most.
It’s that last part that has always been troubling to me.
When offered any Vax at my doctor’s office, I politely ask for the drug insert (not the patient info sheet, the real drug insert with ingredients and full report of side effects. NOT ONCE has the office produced that insert and each time I then politely decline the offered Vax.
They KNOW informed consent is required, but the mere fact of their refusal to produce the information needed for full consent is the biggest red flag in my book.
I’m sure that my doctor would give it to me – or just give me enough information to find the product circular online. Hmmmmmmm….
Yep, use “NIH product insert” in the search terms and you can usually get the long version.
So why not help you? S K E T C H Y
Could be the Vax shots are repackaged between the pharmacy (in the same building) and the location where the family care stocks them.
The nurses probably never get asked for the insert and may even be trained to push aside concerns routinely.
My request would be a rarity that they are not trained to handle. Would be simple enough to offer to send down to the pharmacy department and get an insert, but that messes with their work flow.
I found it interesting that my doctor gave me the proper answers to my questions – later all proven correct and accurate – which enabled me to make *MY* logical decision on the spot, without the insert, later confirmed by greater detail in the online version of the insert, and by the reality of my experience.
There are a few good doctors in the world. Looks like yours is a perfect fit for you.
Responding to your comment about the nurses…a lot of the ones I know simply don’t question the status quo. And those that do are stigmatized. You talk about advocates of vaccines, my one cousin’s wife doesn’t tolerate dissent on the topic. Frankly, sometimes I wonder if they ever see the peer reviewed research.
They are conditioned (MK) to understand that anyone that deviates from the party line will be mocked, lose status and even driven out of their practice.
I knew a woman who refused the flu shot and was forced to wear a mask. She is a type 1 Diabetic and is scrupulous about taking care of herself, and was singled out.
You came to the USA a few years before my parents did singingsoul!!! 🙂
But yeah my parents and my aunts and uncles during the war all the childhood diseases. One child would bring it home and they all got it. But they all survived it.
new shot is more reliable. Medicare does not cover the cost that is about $200-$250—-That is the same thing my Mom’s doctor said. More reliable but they never talked if the cost was covered. My Mom gave him a look of ‘yeah no I’m good. Thanks but no thanks.’
Hubs and I got the new shingles vaccine, and had only mild but noticeable soreness at injection site for a couple days. I have known 3 people who have had bouts of shingles, and two of the three suffer enormously with it – one whose abrasive body rash never goes away, and she has chronic discomfort.
At age 82, my dear old Dad had surgery, chemo and radiation treatment for rectal cancer (10 years ago). Sometime after that, I realized he & Mom never had the shingles shot, so I arranged to have them vaccinated. Since then he has had two bouts of shingles – one uncomfortable, and one milder. I recently had them get the newer vaccine.
Neither of them reacted to any vaccines, and I’m not sure why Dad got shingles after the first vaccine.
(Loved your writing style on this one, Wolfie. I remember our polio vaccine regimens (first shots in school cafeteria then shots were replaced by sugar cubes), and the boy in my class who wore a brace and had a ‘hopping’ gait. Also remember our Christmases when mumps, measles and chickenpox all made their rounds among our family and our cousins!
I do get vaccines & flu shots, even though I have mixed feelings on side effects and efficacy. I figure I did more damage to my body – including my immune system – by my own foolish years of heavy drug usage, and I have been (knock on wood) flu-free for years despite tending sick grand babies, etc.
I have Hashimoto’s Disease…very low immune system and makes me susceptible to lots of “nasties.” Therefore, I did get the shingles shot.
My college roommate got shingles on one arm, extending under the armpit. This was at least 5 years ago and she still often has pain at the site.
An acquaintance’s son got a case of shingles that actually went from the side of his face and into his eye….he committed suicide. He was about 50 at the time.
My prayers for all of these sufferers and their families. There, but for the grace of God, went I and my family.
I need to dig up the reference, but for those folks who are seriously or profoundly hard of hearing (like my son, who ranges from 90-95% loss), the shingles vaccine is highly ototoxic, i.e. it damages hearing, usually permanently.
So, for people in that group, the vaccine is a non-starter (not sure if it’s the new or the old one – I have to check). It would have to be a very serious Shingles outbreak indeed to take that risk.
Ironically, he had the ChickenPox vaccine when he was very small, and around that time his hearing issues started (as far as we can tell). But correlation is not causation, so I can’t say if that had any effect. Nonetheless, for folks with hearing issues, ototoxicity is a serious issue (especially with the mycins group of antibiotics), and some combinations of meds are guaranteed disaster, e.g. Lasix (loop diuretic) and just about any glycoside ab. Sadly, many doctors don’t know all of this, and it takes research and then gently informing them that, no, that med (or those meds, in combination) are ototoxic, could you please try something else. There is a site that has a lot of info on this; the internet has a lot of info too (and if you know someone with professional journal access, you’re really in business): http://hearinglosshelp.com/subscribe-to-hearing-loss-help-ezine
I have to say, Wolf, if that nerve in your face was the long one that goes basically from head to toe, with stops at the eyes and the ears and the facial cavities, you were VERY fortunate indeed. Many people have facial surgery (e.g. wisdom tooth extraction, TMJ repair) or perhaps a tympanostomy (middle ear “inspection” by moving the eardrum) have experienced issues, such as loss of taste, smell, or in some cases, control, due to disturbing this nerve.
SO, if there are other means of innoculating against the “poxen” and their ilk, that would be very good…
P.S. I remember those smallpox innoculation scars – my mum and sis both have them; somehow I didn’t get that big of one (I felt sooooo left out). I also had a classmate who is a polio survivor; pretty much OK but with a pronounced limp. [Oddly enough, I know three people who were “Thalidomide Babies” (Contergan, over here)). A fellow who worked at a hobby shop, and used a long pole to knock boxes (from way up) down, where he caught them and presented them to the customer to look at; a woman who rode around in a wheelchair, with a helper dog (shades of Levi, from “Sue Thomas, F.B.Eye”); very upbeat, but sometimes it bothered here; and a woman over here, who was a brilliant programmer, and a very nice person. Not sure how she was able to program, etc., but she managed pretty well. Now I hear they’re looking at bringing that drug back, which I think is an absolute travesty. The victims over here got NOTHING, as the company declared bankruptcy…
Have to say I’m EXTREMELY skeptical; then again, there are TONS of live-saving meds, as well. In the end, we have to depend on GOD to guide things. We’ve seen wonders in our circle of family and friends, and are forever thankful for that…
Thalidomide harmed foetuses by suppressing the formation of blood vessels. Cancers cant grow without blood supply so produce chemical signals to encourage blood vessel growth. Thalidomide is very good at keeping cancers caged. If it’s incurable it’s put into a holding pattern. If treatable it’s caged whilst chemo surgery radiation beat up on it. All women on it must be permanently sterilised, on 2 forms of contraception or past menopause.
If you have chemo therapy you wipe out your immunity. Vaccinations are forgotten by the immune system. Patients may need reimmunisation, esp children
Chemo, or the steroids given prior to treatment?
The chemo. The steroids depress your immune response and boost muscle development but the chemo targets the actual production of blood cells, white(immunity) and red. (Oxygen carrying). Steroids the immunosuppressive is temporary. They also reduce swelling and inflammation so cancers can’t hide from chemo drugs amongst the dead and dying cells.
I’m not sure I’m even susceptible to shingles. When all my brothers and sisters and neighborhood kids had chickenpox, I somehow never got it. Nor did I years later when my youngest brother got it.
I’m one of those people who are really skeptical of modern vaccines. I agree that the vaccines we had as kids were good. But starting with flu shots, I sometimes think they do more harm than good. When I was in the military, they required them. And sure enough, I got the flu from them every time. I haven’t had a flu shot in the 40 years since and have only had the flu once in all that time. My 88 year old mother, on the other had, has gotten them every year for over 20 years. She now has early Parkinson’s. In my research on Parkinson’s I came across an article about research done at John Hopkins that showed that older people who have had the flu shot for 3 or more years in a row are 10 times as vulnerable to Altzheimer’s and other neurological diseases like Parkinson’s. So of course I’m wondering if that’s what happened to her, since there is none of that in our family tree. Anything they put mercury or aluminum in can’t be all that good for us.
My husband thought he never had chicken pox. Even his mother who was an rn said he didnt. I called bs and told his dr to run a lab for antibodies when he had a cbc checkup. Guess what? Hed had chicken pox. When he asked the dr about it, the dr said “You may have only had one or two pox pustules and not noticed.”
If youre curious, you should have your dr check.
Good point. I have used an online testing site (directlabs.com I think) to pay out of my own pocket to test for antibodies for all the main diseases that the Vax shots are given for. This allows me to show the report to a doctor if they seem concerned about my lack of a Vax history in their database.
Here’s my vaccines are good and bad story…I was hospitalized for Guillian-Barre Syndrome – an acute auto-immune event when the immune system attacks the myelin sheath covering the nerves. People with a history of GBS are advised against vaccines.
A few weeks after being discharged from the hospital I was bit by an animal. After the call came that confirmed the animal was rabid I called my neuro. He said you must get the entire vaccine series because you can survive GBS but you can’t survive rabies.
Shortly after receiving the last vaccine I relapsed repeatedly with GBS and my diagnosis was changed to CIDP – the chronic form of GBS. Over the years I’ve learned what factors trigger my immune system and work hard to keep it under control. It’s a lifestyle now, but no complaints from me. I’m alive.
I don’t get any vaccines and am thankful I’m not required to (yet). Vaccines affect everyone’s immune system differently. I like pgroup’s idea about making vaccines voluntary.
Quite a choice you had way back when.
“Here’s your two choices. One will kill you and the other will … ”
Glad to know you’re okay.
You’ve been through the wringer. Anybody that wants to tell you what you have to do simply goes onto my “Lump of Coal” list!!! 😀
Wowza! I know people who have had GBS and it is no joke. Then, again, neither is rabies. Glad to hear that you are on the good side of both, but wouldn’t want to take the trek to get there.
Wellll,,,
I already wrote an article on vaccines.
I really REALLY do not like the idea of vacinating newborn babies (or even toddlers) who do not have the ability to develop immunity.
MUCH better to vaccinate Mother-to-be and give HER immunity that she then passes on to her babies via her first milk.
(I just vaccinated my sheep, now it is time to wrassle the goats and make sure THEIR immunity is tip-top.)
ARTICLE: https://wqth.wordpress.com/2019/06/16/moar-and-logic-vaccines/comment-page-1/
…
I think vaccination should be up to the parents whom make an INFORMED decision on which vaccines and WHEN based on what is needed for that area and their situation.
To me, forcible vaccination is ChiCom. I simply don’t want to live in “Wannabe China”.
AMEN.
That too Wolfie.
Why should we be able to make the choice on our prts BUT NOT OUR CHILDREN???
Wasn’t there a HPV vaccine they were pushing years ago for girls? It was a 3 part system that they later pushed for boys. I recall it was only good to fight a small amount and I think some of the girls who got the vaccine ended up with ALS.
Was only a couple of years ago that the toxic side effects came to light. Was pushed on both girls and boys. Only worked for a single strain of the virus and side effects were not explained to parents.
Wow that I did not know. Wow glad I listened to my gut instinct on that one!!!
Weren’t they pushing it for people up to age 30?
A lot of girls who took that ended up dead.
I didn’t know that!!!! I recall the article about HPV and them pushing girls to get it but doing more research and finding out that it really didn’t do much I said no thanks. Come to think my doc never pushed it. But it never really clicked for me.
I’m ok with some but not others. I mean chickenpox kept you out of school which was great!!!
I don’t remember all the details, but that vaccine system only protected against maybe like 2-4 strains of the virus and did kill some of the recipients.
And I still want to know if there are any studies out there on autism rates across the spectrum of children born via C-section. If we really do pick up our gut flora in the birth canal, which is the main part of the immune system, that question needs to be answered.
And some beefed up education for new mothers on the importance of breastfeeding when possible for the first few months would be good. I grew up in a La Leche League house where formula was only used when Mom got pregnant while breastfeeding. Talk about decent immune systems. Yeah, we all get colds, but so long as we take care of ourselves, the big issues so far have been congenital abnormailities, and that was just one brother.
When studying the EBV effects some time ago, I learned that those in regions of the world where it was common usually saw children getting it with mild effects before their teen years. However, when teens or older moved from areas where it was not common to areas where it was common their immune response to EBV could be as bad as the symptoms from Polio.
I suspect that our understanding of viruses and immune response to viruses have been victims of reductionistic thinking.
Yes. And the reductionist thinking is being forced on the “fake science” we are presented.
wolfmoon thanks for this good conversation!! Very eye opening to read.
You’re welcome! Truly free and honest vaccine discussions are far too rare. I jump on every opportunity.
Wolfie, don’t know if I’ve been paroled from WP jail yet or not, but a bunch of my posts haven’t appeared on my screen after posting. If this show up, appparently I’ve been released.
Yea, I’m free. I’m free.
Yeah Plain Jane I see you!!!! Your free!!!!!
I realized I was in jail last night when I commented on DP’s commentary. Glad you can seee me. 🙂
When in WP jail!!! 😀
I don’t know why, but a bunch of your stuff went into spam. It made no sense. Yes – I finally saw it and released it all.
Thank you Wolfie. WP decided it didn’t like me last night. Lol
Its a good talk to have. And with the Qtree I know I’m going to learn a lot of stuff and see things from a new perspective. So thanks everyone! 🙂
Is it really true that actually HAVING chicken pox makes you less likely to get shingles than having the vaccine?
They never tell you that, and I had actual chicken pox as a child. I should have been vaccinated, I am only 54, but for some reason, I had them all, mumps and measles, too.
Same here. Measles, mumps, chickenpox, impetigo even!!! LOL.
Yes, I had that one, too!
I’m younger than you, and I don’t think the vaccine was out when I had them.
Some people may have innate resistance to herpes/chicken pox. I had a very light case of chicken pox, and have never had a fever blister or herpes/shingles kind of infection. Neither did my sister.
Interesting!
I’m pretty sure I’ve read that multiple times, about the disease having higher efficacy against getting shingles, and that this is reflected in the statistics.
So I have had shingles.
I have had shingles 5 times.
The first time I was 28. I had chicken pox when I was 5 that I caught in the wild and was slathered in calamine lotion for 2 weeks trying not to itch.
Shingles came on in a patch on my back while visiting family and I suspected thats what it was. I was under significant stress and the length of time reactivated the virus. When I went to the doctor, he asked me how I knew what it was,as if I couldnt figure it out! All he gave me were steroids, which he said just save them, and Neurontin for the pain, which I did take.
I didnt have a huge outbreak, and thank goidness never in my eye.
4 more times over the next 10 years and 1 time they didnt follow the nerve path, they were all over. I was really sick.
No doctor would give me anything except pain medicine. When the last outbreak went all over, I had a severe flu and was just getting over bad food poisoning. And personal stress. My body was freaking out. Perfect chance for the virus to take control. I basically slept for a week. Mr Gil got a but worried but the doctor said they wouldnt do anything “because I was so young”.
Not only that, but Ive been refused the vaccine repeatedly because Im still too young.
Its been a long time since that last outbreak and I hope I never have another. I would get the vacinne if they would stop acting as if only middle age and elderly get shingles and can show me how they would address it for younger people.
That is just awful Gil. 🙁
Do you think you might want to stock up with some cimetidine to try if they reoccur?
https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2001/3/report_tagamet/page-01
Thats very interesting. I routinely take this for reflux.
Gil,
Try getting off the breads and pastas (CARBS.) As soon as I aggressively cut out the carbs esp. wheat about 2 decades ago my nightly reflux stopped. It only returns when I can not resist having a sandwich esp in the evenings.
However I do use Cimetidine on occasion. However it does not stop the reflux if I over endulge in wheat.
Yes maam. I have stopped in the past and done well. I like pasta made from lentils, and beans but mr gil and kiddo dont. I really should though, youre right.
Oh Gil…. so sorry for your suffering.
Ive not had it as bad as many, but thank you.
There’s a guy in a club I’m in, “Dr. Bob”. An actual MD. He got shingles in his eye and missed six months of club meetings.
That sh***’s dangerous, awful, and nasty. My deepest sympathies to anyone so afflicted.
You can go blind if its in your eye. Some people get it in huge breakouts on their trunk. Ive been lucky so far. Sounds like Wolf has too.
Yup. Very lucky.
I was quite OK with taking the Ghost Pepper Vaccine when I heard the numbers versus the old Mild Buffalo Vaccine, which hardly seemed worth it.
Im glad its helped you. Once Im 50, if I have another outbreak, Ill see if they will consider it. I cant believe that they havent developed anything for younger cases.
I’m thinking that the new vaccine – no live virus – may start getting tested younger and younger as a way of going after chickenpox AND shingles. Maybe they’re using us expendables first. 😉
After watching what was done in “The Minds of Men”, such “vaccine crafty strategy” seems downright saintly.
My daughter had shingles when she was 17, so you are right that it’s not just an old person virus. After being on the receiving end of many oddball medical scenarios, its clear to me that anything can happen at any time to anyone. I wish more doctors would move past following rigid protocols and treat patients according to their unique set of circumstances.
We have a family friend who was under an unGodly amount of stress (for good cause) when he got the shingles in his late 20s. It was just awful.
Thats what theyre supposed to do!!! Stop treating off just the algorithm chart.
However Insurance Companies and Obummercare have now INSISTED on Medicine by rote. HECK, many times you do not even see a REAL DOCTOR! You only get to see a ‘Nurse Practictioner’ or a resident
My youngest of 4 is the only one who got the chickenpox vaccine when he was 4 or 5. The other 3 had mild cases in their early life. Fast forward 15 years and my vaccinated son developed an excruciating pain in his ear which we first thought was a severe ear infection even though he has no medical history. Fortunately we have a dear friend who is a local ENT. His diagnosis was either MRSA or shingles and he treated him very aggressively with steroids, antibiotics, pain meds and something else I can’t recall. The MRSA test came back negative. Apparently the shingles virus lives in that very sensitive ear nerve. He’s had one flare up (didn’t go full blown) since then and developed tinnitus in that same ear. It’s terrifying to worry about another outbreak which could render him deaf or dead from the pain. The shingles vaccine is absolutely out of the question for him.
Chickenpox parties among non-vaxxers would be my recommendation from underground real science.
What’s happening is that Feudalism Science just uses one expensive mistake to cover up the previous one, hoping that overall, the understanding gained is worth the various prices paid.
I just watched “The Minds of Men” – a very interesting MK movie.
Whatever. The bottom line is that non-vaxxers and the science-sane need to advertise their kids having chickenpox so that there can be quickly organized meet-ups and social events to spread the virus KNOWINGLY among kids. Live wild is better than the vaccine. GET OVER IT. FACE THE TRUTH.
I’m really understanding the Evil Schiffty now. He’s protecting Fake Science. This is all about hiding stuff like the chickenpox vaccine truth.
Seriously, it’s very clear that the chickenpox vaccine was an interesting stumble-type failure. I think it was worth a try – I don’t see it as something to be blamed or withdrawn. But I think it would be a great thing if we had a LOT more kids getting real chickenpox.
This brings up the whole idea of optimal herd vaccination levels being WAY less than 99%, way less than 90%, maybe LOWER than 50%. Maybe the chickenpox vaccine should be “batting clean-up” after childhood chickenpox has its say.
This would HELP the vaccinated kids by challenging them with real virus as continuous booster.
Yes – LOWER PROFITS, BETTER MEDICINE.
What is best for MONEY and RESEARCH is not necessarily best for PEOPLE.
See it both ways to see it clearly.
Herd immunity is a myth to keep people vaccinating and make them afraid of those who aren’t. Majority of kids coming down with measles had been vaccinated. A Naval ship was recently quarantined at sea because of the mumps and all had been vaccinated. https://thefreethoughtproject.com/us-navy-ship-quarantined-sea-vaccination/
My point is that my chicken pox vaccinated son GOT SHINGLES FROM THE VACCINE. I would like to know (1) what percentage of naturally acquired chicken pox children later in life get shingles; and (2) what percentage of vaccinated children get shingles. If in fact they now KNOW that #(2) is CAUSING shingles, is that why they shingles vaccine is now pushed so hard?
Here’s a great source to learn the facts about how the (90%) decline of disease overlaps with vaccination. https://www.learntherisk.org/diseases/
Anyone watched VAXXED yet? The sequel VAXXED II is coming out this fall. I dare anyone to watch the trailer and not cry first and question just what the hell is really going on. https://www.vaxxed2.com/
So color me skeptical about acquiring immunity or protection from cancer (HPV pushed for that) with vaccines. Ask for that insert of side affects and warnings as someone earlier posted. It should scare the shit out of any thinking person. Does one really think that population control, as a part of the Agenda 2030, are not at play with vaccines?
Yes – it would appear that vaccinations for these childhood diseases [which for chickenpox KNOWINGLY GIVES THE LIVE VIRUS] don’t generate a strong immunity – not like a childhood case of the disease itself. And THAT means you get the gift of shingles anyway, but with LESS IMMUNITY.
Saying that one “got shingles from the chickenpox vaccine” is true, because it’s a live virus. Likewise, getting shingles from the normal disease occurs for the same reason – you got the live virus.
Weirdly, I *might* expect that MY SHINGLES VACCINE – which is not the live virus but the chickenpox surface glycoprotein as an antigen – might theoretically make a good chickenpox vaccine which COULD NOT GIVE SHINGLES. Although one MIGHT get a sub-acute version of chickenpox anyway, and still get shingles.
Which makes me wonder if such a vaccine could work for chickenpox itself, and prevent ACTUAL infection by the virus, preventing shingles overall.
I do believe that herd immunity is VASTLY overplayed by the other side, as a rationale for forcing vaccines on 100% of the population (very nasty agenda there) but the concept arises out of the basic math of communicable disease, so I personally can’t call it a myth. They have just taken a small benefit which neatly covers the people who don’t vaccinate (I mean, it’s like a GIFT) and then used it as an excuse. I think one of the things being excused is the DISEASE caused by UN-backed mass migration subversion.
My question on some of the childhood diseases that are making a comeback is did the virus itself mutate? That’s a fear I’ve had for a long time. Every cold or flu you get is a different virus. They mutate in order to survive. Is this happening thanks to all the immunizations that failed to kill the host?
Very interesting idea. And one more reason why I think that the INFORMED SPECULATION possible under FREE SPEECH is so important. And one more reason why POLITICIZED SCIENCE is so dangerous.
AMEN on that wolfie!
We always have to remember the Elite view us with CONTEMPT. That is why they have ZERO problem killing babies.
It’s Time for the Elites to Rise Up Against the Ignorant Masses – Foreign Policy Mag
FP ain’t what it used to be. Meant in all possible ways!!!
Thanks for the interesting discussion!
You’re welcome! I feel like I’ve learned more yesterday and today about vaccines, than in the prior two years!!!
As a child I had all the good ones: chicken pox, measles, scarlet fever, and mumps.
Dealt with what I thought was an ulcer for decades (from age 21 to 50) only to discover a bacterial infection in my stomach. (rice paddy water?)
A few years ago (age 66?) shingles came to visit.
Rash followed by pain so severe I thought I was about to die. Steroids helped.
To this day the affected area (chest & back) itch uncontrollably, the result of damaged nerves.
Doctor told me it may disappear in time or never. There’s no topical treatment.
After hearing my story many of my friends have been vaccinated.
My advice………..get the shot.
Another mysterious ailment that found me was PMR (Polymyalgia rheumatica).
Cause unknown and no cure—-just treatment.
https://healthprep.com/conditions/best-ways-treat-polymyalgia-rheumatica/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=328752039&utm_content=1150089732534860&utm_term=pmr%20medical%20abbreviation&msclkid=d8c6d7b5e0ff1d85530f8a327987a82c
I regard all these minor afflictions as part of living life. I have been very fortunate.
Amen! Thanks for your post!
Wolf 🐺 your mention of the chicken pox vaccination and the scare reminded me of mine on my left arm … ancient history but I’ve had occasional issues with blisters (small breakout) and was diagnosed with hasimoto’s thyroiditis before the birth of second son … I think a dermatologist noticed it and referred the information to my ob/gyn … it was a small white spot on the little finger of my hand. Boy that was the beginning of a ton of fun … 😖🤚 … but …. baby boy #2 was ok.
Also in elementary school, maybe second grade a new girl came to class, she’d just been vaccinated and she had a protective plastic cup over the vaccination … all the kids were gob smacked …. you know it was really different … I don’t think she was comfortable with it …. poor kid
Thanks for this post it is very helpful/hope to me … guess I’ll keep up the shots …. the glen livet first and work down from there … bwahahahahahah
HA! Love it! Yeah, *those* shots ain’t without danger!!! 😀
Yeah, nuts … got the kick in the butt 30 years after the dadgum shot. I only went because I had to and when your parents sign the permission slip that’s it they get ya … they come and get you out of class (not fair there who DOESN’T want to get out of class … man 🤨) …
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