I have an urgent research request to my fellow QTreepers. I need to know if a drug called albuterol in particular, also known as salbutamol, and other similar “-ol” drugs more generally, and even the entire class of bronchodilators, are safe and effective in treating both active and especially *recovering* COVID-19 patients.
Such a drug seems like a no-brainer good guy. And yet – we are dealing with the CABAL. THE CABAL has tried to HIDE the good guys chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, and azithromycin. Only an active MOVEMENT OF THE WELL-INTENTION has broken past their media stranglehold on truth and the media cornucopia of lies.
I’ve seen far worse in the science world, where nobody except the fooled are watching.
Are there hidden DANGERS of using these drugs? Are there paradoxical effects? Have clinicians run into any problems using them? Are there reasons NOT to use them? Are there reasons why using them might APPEAR HELPFUL for COVID-19 but might in fact be CONTRAINDICATED or dangerous in certain cases?
After all, we are dealing with the CABAL here. They can mislead even the most well-intended scientists and physicians, by altering what they know and what they don’t know.
THINK QUARANTINE. THINK TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS. THINK CHLOROQUINE. THINK GLOBAL WARMING. THINK GREEN ENERGY.
The cabal has had the power to mislead even the “professionals”. I watched it up close in “shallow state”.
Sometimes the DEVIL YOU KNOW is less dangerous than the DEVIL YOU DON’T.
Asking for a friend! 😉
I think Gail posted a report from Japan on using mild asthma inhalers to reduce lung damage in Covid-19. There is also a report (from Italy?) of creating a chloroquinolone delivery that is aerosolized.
It makes sense to me to reduce inflammation on the mucosal lining of the lungs AFTER an infection is established. Not sure about using BEFORE since you want lung immune function at full force to avoid an entrenched infection.
THANKS!!!
Found some good info here. It certainly looks like it is being used by EMS services on the FRONT END of treatment on INCOMING POSSIBLE COVID-19 PATIENTS.
https://www.ems1.com/airway-management/articles/mchd-emergency-protocol-to-eliminate-nebulized-albuterol-0EmiOer7vt6nu6Gz/
I found this (sorry for the source, but it is information):
“Stukus stressed the point that people with asthma should continue all prescribed daily controller medications. He also advises having an up-to-date copy of their asthma treatment plan. Asthma sufferers should make sure they know when and how to treat symptoms if they occur.
“There is a lot of misinformation circulating surrounding asthma and COVID-19 and everyone should always contact their personal doctor before making any changes to their treatment or stopping medicine,” said Stukus, who is Social Media Editor for American Academy of Allergy Asthma and Immunology (AAAAI). “No commonly prescribed asthma medications pose risk for COVID-19 and anyone who stops their daily controller medication will increase their risk for exacerbation and possible need for emergency services.””
https://www.newsweek.com/does-coronavirus-affect-asthma-what-sufferers-need-know-about-covid-19-1493022
Here is another article, also aimed at asthmatics:
“Patients are asking allergists and pulmonologists whether certain medications used to treat asthma, such as oral corticosteroids and biologic drugs, could raise the risk of coronavirus complications.
The concerns relate to whether the asthma medicines might suppress immune system function.
The American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology says none of the asthma medications, including inhaled and oral corticosteroids and biologic medicines, have been shown to make COVID-19 illness worse. Nor do they increase the risk of getting the virus.”
https://www.allergicliving.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-asthma-how-to-cut-risks-and-keep-control/
More, this about inhaled and other steroidals. Albuterol is NOT a steroid, but there are other asthma inhalers that ARE:
“Steroids should be avoided in the treatment of the current novel coronavirus, experts have advised.
A commentary article published in The Lancet concludes that, based on evidence from previous outbreaks of similar types of infection such as SARS, steroids provide little benefit to patients and could do more harm than good.
They say that clinicians should still administer the treatment for conditions such as asthma and other inflammatory diseases.”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200206110703.htm
Nebulized albuterol should be avoided! I have seen this in multiple articles. It increases transmission:
The COVID-19 pandemic has forced EMS and all emergency providers to reassess our approach to airway management and treatment. This is especially true when we must care for patients with cough, fever and difficulty breathing prior to knowing their infectious status.
“Coronaviruses are transmitted via patient droplets. However, prehospital providers can increase the risk of viral transmission by aerosolizing patient droplets. This is thought to occur in several situations, such as suctioning, intubation, utilizing a BVM, during non-invasive positive pressure ventilation, with high-flow oxygen use (>6L/min), or when administering nebulized medications.”
https://www.ems1.com/airway-management/articles/mchd-emergency-protocol-to-eliminate-nebulized-albuterol-0EmiOer7vt6nu6Gz/
I’m worried about you. Have you tried just oxygen at all? Maybe support would give your lungs time to properly heal. I completely understand your concern about ANY medicine, given the state of things. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do. If I find anything more definitive, I will post here again.
I’m seeing agreement with this in what I’m finding – that STEROIDS are the things to watch out for, as immunosuppressants – NOT albuterol – ALTHOUGH the nebulized form (meaning NOT personal dosed inhalers) creates a risk for spreading the virus, and should be avoided in favor of the personal inhalers.
https://www.ky3.com/content/news/During-Coronavirus-and-flu-outbreak-beware-of-your-medications-side-effects-568455571.html
Oxygen may be down the road. First step is albuterol. The reason I am trusting this approach is partly because of a recommendation from Wheatie. I just need to leave no stone unturned in finding RISKS of this approach, which can be kept hidden by the Cabal very easily. Google and others can deep-six whatever they want, within limits of plausibility.
Somebody in that office OR with access to my electronic health records has worked to help create a false depression narrative. Spidey senses are on eleven!
Prayer shields up!
Fear not.
God wins!
Safety of Abiding in the Presence of God
1.
He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2.
I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.
3.
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4.
He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5.
You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6.
Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7.
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
8.
Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.
9.
Because you have made the Lord, who is my refuge,
Even the Most High, your dwelling place,
10
No evil shall befall you,
Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;
11.
For He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you in all your ways.
12.
In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.
13.
You shall tread upon the lion and the cobra,
The young lion and the serpent you shall trample underfoot.
14.
“Because he has set his love upon Me, therefore I will deliver him;
I will set him on high, because he has known My name.
15.
He shall call upon Me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble;
I will deliver him and honor him.
16.
With long life I will satisfy him,
And show him My salvation.”
The Holy Bible, New King James Version.
Amen!
RIGHT HERE:
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
Amen.
Mother Mary, all angels and saints pray for the ones who suffer because of those who commit ill will or just serve their own mortal interests.
I’m singing along with a Michael Joncas song.
That is scary. You are right to be careful.
Interesting times. Phony Cabal Socialism needs that ultimate control of the individual – down to elimination with narrative. You can see where they want to go. In the Clinton / China world, groups like the Branch Davidians are easily eliminated with narrative. Individuals like Bev Eckert are eliminated with narrative. It gets much easier if satanic Alinskyites take over medicine, the saver of life.
We are still nicely primitive on this, thanks to the blockade of Obamacare.
China’s human organ recycling program is definitely much more advanced. Only hints of it show.
Notice in the following video that it’s all in one place – it can be found – it can be discovered.
How would the communists ACTUALLY do it? By DISTRIBUTIVE HIDING. It’s pretty ingenious.
They FICTIONALIZE TO PROTECT.
We DEFICTIONALIZE TO OVERTHROW.
OMG, Wolfmoon, I literally CANNOT believe this.
I watched this movie YESTERDAY. All I could think the whole time is “this is too real.”
Serendipity, fate, whatever you call it, that is amazing.
GOD WINS. It ain’t a joke!
Think of it this way in terms of the CABAL, who gets their organs quickly and on demand in China.
CHINA IS THEIR ISLAND. COMMUNISTS ARE THE GUARDS AND ADMINISTRATORS.
Makes me wonder about the incentives for socialist medicine in America. I think the ORGAN MATCHES would be a lot better.
Interestingly (to me) I also thought about this movie the other day & I haven’t seen it for many years…hmm
I will someday start a discussion about this phenomenon, because I have certain theories which are interesting in their own right. They’re not “alternatives” to spiritual reasoning, IMO – they’re merely “alternative perspectives” OF the same thing. It all goes back to two simple questions: What is the Holy Spirit and why does Christ trust it? If one tries to actually answer that, the answers inevitably lead in the same direction – the general larger convergence upon truth by those who seek more thereof. Even when it is not momentarily apparent WHY different viewpoints are converging, they will converge ANYWAY. “The unseen tether of truths we do not yet know.” Beautiful!
Fascinating. I always look forward to your perspective on things. Sometimes you blow my mind! That occasionally makes the Q-Tree a tad bit addictive!!! 🙂
I’m concerned, too, Wolfie. Have you seen your doctor? Maybe you could be tested for the virus, which can come back, and if you have it you could be given that malaria drug if your doc agrees. It could be prescribed off-label, I think. One of my lib friends just sent me an article about an Arizona man who died after ingesting fish tank cleaner, which is similar chemically, but not only did he not have a prescription, he ingested way more than a normal dose, as did his wife. Idiots. My friend blames Trump. I told her no one could blame him, unless they were a liberal I’ve never said anything quite like that to her before. Lol.
There is a lot of confusion now. My blame order is as follows:
1. CCP / CHYYYNNAA
2. CCP-loving Soviet Fake News
3. The “Get Trump” Deep State
4. Nasty Nan and the DNC
I have not read anywhere that the virus can come back. If you can find any links, please post them! I have heard this, and also that it was refuted, but I’d like to make up my own mind.
Wolfie, I saw that too but it may just be a result of faulty tests. Also it was early on so I think it came out of China.
Albuterol is a quick acting bronchodilater, used a lot as a “rescue inhaler” for kids with asthma and adults with COPD. Common side effects are nervousness, jitters, increased heart rate.
Thanks! Very useful!
It comes as an inhaler or a liquid form for hand held nebulizer use…I would THINK the inhaler would be the safest route with Covid to avoid the droplet formation and moisture you get in the nebulizer
My current nebulizer puts out a dry mist…no droplets.
The first nebulizer I bought was a cheapo and not as powerful; the mist it put out was sort of wet with little droplets in it.
So I’ve learned that nebulizers are not all the same.
The more powerful they are, the more dry the mist is that they put out.
I can go a long time without having to use it…but it is a life-saver when my seasonal allergies cause my lungs to close up.
Rescue inhalers are good…but the dose wears off rather quickly.
A nebulizer can give me long-term relief.
Thanks! Good to know that there are long-term options if this albuterol works.
I have seen nothing to indicate COVID virus-shedding more than a matter of days after recovery – although the MAX DAYS OF VIRUS SHEDDING AFTER RECOVERY would be an extremely useful number for me to lessen the worries of others. I would like to assure people that I’m not contagious, but I need to know for certain that this is true.
Xopenex with a spacer would increase delivery of dose, does not have the jittery/palpitations that albuterol gives.
My mom had to have it when she had a larynx injury and went to the ER in an ambulance. Scary day.
I hope this gets straightened out.
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/albuterol-side-effects.html
“More Common” side effects: Shakiness in legs / arms / hands / feet;
trembling of hands or feet.
There’s a large list of “Less Common” side effects.
I recommend you click on the “Professional” tab on the webpage and read that information also.
Albuterol is also available in oral syrup, oral tablet, and extended release tablet.
It may well be an idea, given droplet transmission of viruses etc., to stay away from the nebulized versions.
in addition to the fact that the whole using a nebulizer thing is a pain, PLUS you must keep EVERY component of the nebulizer machine SCRUPULOUSLY CLEAN.
In my course of work I had to assist patients with nebulized meds, including albuterol.
If a person can take this med by mouth, I think that may be the ticket.
wolfmoon1776
Is there a way, once this Wuhan coronavirus situation is under control, that you can ask your doctor to order an x-ray or scan to see if / how much, your lungs could be scarred?
Has your doctor got you an Incentive Spirometer that you can hold and use to exercise your lungs?
I worked with patients who used this device after recovering from pneumonia, It helped them.
However — if you do use this device, be careful that you don’t go “whole hog” in the exercises — you can end up actually damaging your lungs and/or rib cage muscles.
Sending much Good Energy to you.
Thank you! Very helpful!
Yes, at some point I will get a visit, but right now is not the time, so examination has to be logical, not physical. Albuterol results are the next step.
I agree – a lung X-ray would be awesome. Also, my doc is extremely skilled with a stethoscope. Sadly, that can’t be done right now.
Would be nice if there was a cheap iPhone attachment that could be mailed to people. Put the phone on speakerphone and follow doctor’s orders, pressing the bottom end of the phone against the body in the right places.
I have not been recommended lung exercises yet – I see the logic in that. Important to isolate the effect of albuterol. Depending on those results, different options emerge.
Atrovent is another option, or Combivent (Albuterol & Atrovent) for rescue inhaler. May want to look into a daily like Spiriva. Xopenex is closest to albuterol, without jitters. Nothing listed on contraindications. Some older studies on SARS shows good results with MDI, but did not address specific meds.
SARS is exactly what this is – sudden acute respiratory syndrome. Excellent. Means my doc is really following a literature precedent.
Hoping I don’t get jitters, but if so, then maybe a switch if there are positive results otherwise.
Wolf – I had to use a nebulizer once with Albuterol for a serious case of bronchitis. It was administered in the Dr.’s office, and I experienced a horrible case of the jitters (putting it mildly). I refused to do it again and went with oral antibiotics and cough meds instead.
I get the jitters with one cup of coffee so am very sensitive to stimulants. Should you try the Albuterol, just know the jitters don’t last forever, and knowing it may happen ahead of time will prepare you. No one told me it was a possibility and it was frankly a bit terrifying. That was the last time I went to that doctor.
Good luck and wishing you a full recovery!
Thanks – a very helpful warning. I do have to be careful about this.
This seems to bring back some weird memory of getting a test where they measured my lung capacity, and I had to inhale something – they measured it before and after – I’ll bet it was this same stuff. If so, then I can definitely tolerate it.
Wolfie, have you tried Guaifenesin?
After I had pneumonia and started running again, I found my lower lungs were full of gunk and I would spend a good ten minutes ‘coughing my lungs up’ until they finally became clear again.
This sounds like you have the same problem. Gunk remaining in your lungs that still needs to be cleared out even though you are over the infection. Straight Guaifenesin without the dextromethorphan plus gentle exercise may be what you want to start off with.
“Guaifenesin is an expectorant that increases the volume and reduces the viscosity (stickiness) of respiratory tract secretions. This makes coughing out these secretions easier.”
Side effects listed too:
Guaifenesin is an expectorant that increases the volume and reduces the viscosity (stickiness) of respiratory tract secretions. This makes coughing out these secretions easier.
Yeah, I may try that stuff. I’ve definitely been doing the exercise and that is helping a lot. While I’m huffing and puffing, I’m doing a little less of them each day!!! 😀
Albuterol is quite common in this country as numerous folks have asthma (children and adults) and other compromised pulmonary systems that respond well to the quick effect of bronchodilators – it immediately cuts the inflammation and the spasm issue which causes folks’ lungs to tighten up – the “I can’t breathe” issue.
Would make logical sense to use it with any kind of pulmonary issue – particularly related to COVID-19 and other disease processes compromising pulmonary status. Even people with bad colds will often have to have an “inhaler” to aid their oxygenation.
It opens the lungs, but will speed up the heart rate, so they have to monitor that for folks who have cardiac conditions.
Thanks for this. I may “half-dose” my way into this stuff.
I’m taking that you went to the doc today. You okay?
Nobody gets into the doc any more – you get Skype, Facetime, or app video, if you have an appointment! 😉 But yes, I saw the doc.
I’m permanently at 7000 feet in Colorado. It’s beautiful here, just to be alive, but the air is thin. 😎
I’m panting a lot. Have to take a lot of rests. It’s not pretty. From what I can tell, I went from “never worry about a cough, cold, allergy or whatever” to “oh, crap”. All those years of quitting smoking when young and exercising just went up in a single case of the flu. I had lungs and stamina that were 10 years younger. Now they’re 10 years older.
Thank you, CCP!
If you can’t easily get to a lower altitude, you might look into deep breathing exercises. Gentle ones. Respiratory Therapists teach people this stuff.
This will be coming soon, I’m sure. And yeah. I’ll be moving for sure now. But not until I make the other side cry over the grave of socialism.
So sorry, Wolfie. Would you and wife ever consider relocating down the hill? Lol, probably not. It must be beautiful there.
Wut?!? You are in CO, only 2k feet above me?!? How did I not know that ?!??? 😎
I am so sorry for your lingering, significant breathing issues, Wolfie. I do hope you will follow up to get scans and treatment. My son & grandkids all have asthma/breathing problems and use albuterol. None have the jittery side effects mentioned by others. There are several other more intensive treatments you could be eligible for if your lungs are damaged or a bug is lingering. And yes, the altitude makes both your illness AND breathing more difficult.
I’ve lived ‘ mile high’ over half my life. It’s only been the last couple of years that I struggle with shortness of breath with just a normal 40-minute walk, let alone a hike, and my heart starts racing. It is very disconcerting because I’ve been ultra-active my whole life. I have not been ill during this time; the only thing that has changed is I started taking blood pressure medication. My doctor can’t find anything wrong with my lungs or heart, and says it’s NOT my BP medicine causing the change, but what is it then?
Just know, we love you, and pray for your recovery until you are back to Roaring Wolf 💖💖
If you can get someone to look at your blood under a microscope you may find “clumpy” blood cells. There is a technical name for it that I can’t remember just now. Blood cells get clumpy under stress. Too much wireless radiation is one cause. A whole market for “grounding” or “earthing” products came out of the study of how excess charge on the body leads to blood clumping.
Read more… https://www.drsinatra.com/boost-heart-health-through-grounding
Wolf, I use albuterol sulfate HFA inhalation aerosol for relief when I have a coughing spell and my lungs hurt. Directions say 1-2 puffs by mouth every 4-6 hours as needed. It was originally prescribed when I had severe bronchitis, but now have it handy for my chronic cough….perhaps using it every few nights. It does give me relief.
Thanks! Good to know that a number of people here use this stuff.
How jittery does the drug make you? Any heart palpitations?
No, but it does seem to create a faster heart beat, but mine is well under 100 which seems to be acceptable. At the request of my wellness doctor I’m charting my daily blood pressure, heart rate. Etc. for a period, so I’m more aware than I normally would be…otherwise I probably wouldn’t even notice it.
I did a treadmill stress test a few months ago and passed it without difficulty.
Thing is…it’s easy to get…not expensive and you just give it a try to see if it helps you. BTW, each container has 200 metered inhalation’s and is good for a year.
A bout of pneumonia twenty years ago left me with symptoms of asthma and bronchitis.
I started using a rescue inhaler then, whenever I needed to.
About ten years ago, I was walking my dog at a Rest Stop on I-40 just west of Ft. Smith, AR.
It was late summer…and unbeknownst to me…the place was infested with an overpopulation of Lone Star Ticks.
Both my big doggie and myself, were getting covered with them on our lower legs.
I sustained over fifty tick bites simultaneously…I don’t know how many, really…I stopped counting at 50.
My dog got even more bites.
Even though he was treated with Frontline, and the ticks were dying from it…he still sustained a lot of bites.
After that, my allergies became worse.
I think it affected my dog too, because he became wheezy at times after that.
I noticed little blurbs in the News where other people had experienced the same thing, after getting bitten by Lone Star Ticks.
The reason I am bringing this up…is because it led to my using a rescue inhaler even more.
I have noticed that the more I use Albuterol, the less effective it becomes.
So I think you can develop a tolerance to it…so you have to use more of it.
Primatene Mist is an over-the-counter rescue inhaler that uses Epinephrine as it’s active ingredient.
They work pretty good…and are an alternative to using an Albuterol rescue inhaler.
Side effects I have noticed, from Albuterol are:
— Drying effect, in skin and mouth.
— Losing weight (but that may just be me).
Since I have low blood pressure and low heart rate…I think this is why I haven’t experienced the ‘shakiness’ or ‘jitters’ that others have been bothered with.
There is also Asthmaneferin…which is another over-the-counter bronchodilator.
You have to use it in a nebulizer.
It’s active ingredient is…Racepinephrine.
It works pretty good, and is another alternative to Albuterol.
Hope this helps, Wolfie.
🙂🥰
Having sudden attacks of shortness of breath is nothing to fool around with.
I hope you’ll arm yourself with some bronchodilators, and get relief.
Excellent advice! Love it. Having some back-up plans is always a relief. And the low blood pressure thing may be helpful here, too. I have lots of play room there.
Lone star ticks are scary. They ALWAYS show up on every list of carriers of bad tick-borne diseases, including things like MEAT ALLERGY (the horror!).
Just remember…that our bodies are constantly replacing cells.
Cells of all kinds.
It takes around 7 years for our bodies to completely replace every cell.
I think this is Why we sometimes develop allergies to things that we were never allergic to before.
I used to be able to take Penicillin, for example.
Now I am allergic to it.
Our bodies use whatever we eat, breathe in or consume…to create new cells in this ongoing cell replacement.
So we can essentially be ‘a different person’ as a result of that cell replacement.
It can also work the other way…
My husband used to be allergic to Nuts.
Now he is not.
He grew out of that allergy.
Our cells are a product of whatever our bodies had to work with, during the cell replacement.
Great way of looking at it – we are NEW CONSTRUCTION IN PLACE based on DNA BLUEPRINTS.
Yes, that is the Exact analogy I have used with husband and son. Blue print is there but then environment affects the execution of the plan … environment including air, water, food, chemicals/lack of chemicals, sunshine, stress, emotional state, relationships and spiritual state. Food was short but is a HUGE factor. Part of the reason son is so much bigger than we are – he is getting lots of Good food and plenty of protein, something neither husband nor I received growing
This may be lame but in my recent illness I would get a jar of “Vick’s Vapor Rub” (actually the off-brand with the same active ingredients) & periodically open the jar & inhale it really close to my nose for a few breaths & this gave a bit of relief for breathing challenges that were likely very much less severe than yours. Sucking on menthol cough drops & also helped somewhat in the past. Hang in there!
Hey – even Riccola cough drops (the non-mentholated ones) open me up!!! Good thing to think about. Menthol is powerful stuff.
Menthol is a powerful reset for the system.
Homeopaths use it for this.
Just doing an online search Valda comes up.
Sugar free without aspartame is important IMO.
Riccola sugar-free DOES use aspartame which is a proven neurotoxin.
Shoot, Wheatie…I can assure you losing weight is definitely not an universal side affect! 😢😢
This one is kind of hilarious! Comic relief plus a LOT of great user experience with metered dose inhalers!!!
I took 3 puffs from my inhaler, will I die?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AwrC1jGTWnleUmkAMzVPmolQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–?qid=20121224175345AAORxGP
Not all ‘puffs’ are equal, with an inhaler.
Sometimes you will get a sputtered, partial dose, that comes out.
My doctor…who also uses them himself…has told me that those weak, sputtery doses do not count.
And to do another one, a full dose, whenever that happens.
It takes a while to get the hang of using an inhaler, Wolf.
A slow depression on the inhaler will cause those sputtery doses.
It takes doing a quick, forceful squeeze, to produce a ‘full dose’.
Good to know! That’s a lot like those antiseptic puffers – pocket bac – whatever they call them. Gotta depress fast and hard for a good spray!
Exactly, yes!
Your doctor may try to put you on a Corticosteroid Inhaler.
Mine did.
He said it would be a way to “get ahead of the asthma attacks”.
Problem is…you’re supposed to use them every day, forever.
I tried the Symbicort inhaler for awhile, even though I had had a bad reaction to another steroid medication a while back.
My doctor said to try it anyway…so I did.
It worked good for awhile.
Then…I noticed that I was having more acute asthma attacks than I had ever had before.
So I did a little research on Symbicort.
Turns out, stronger asthma attacks are a fairly common side effect!
😬😕
My doctor should’ve known this.
Needless to say…I stopped using the Symbicort.
THANK YOU!!!
This is exactly why I put up this thread! Sometimes we have to be skeptical of a new drug, and come to understand the costs and benefits, and then make our own informed decision about staying the course or quitting.
In my experience, patient feedback up to and including rational discontinuation of a drug by the patient promotes a healthy experimentalism between patient and doctor. When both are engaged at that level, good stuff results. A good doc will adapt to this, just as patients need to adapt to the doc in some ways.
Docs go for the “no brainers” first, but when things get tough, they almost depend on trying things that may fail – and not just benignly. Patients have to have backbone and refuse some drugs that have too many negative effects. MUST HAVE BACKBONE!!!
Somewhere in all the info we have seen, it was not recommended to use steroid inhalers for Covid…I don’t recall the rationale or where I saw it
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. Steroids work by lowering immune response at a pretty basic level, and that may not be desired. Gotta be careful.
Have you been able to use Spiriva?
Haven’t tried that one, coosmama.
Does it have steroids in it?
If it does…I probably shouldn’t use it.
I think I am somewhat allergic to steroids.
Nope. No steroids.
Just texting with my sis who does this stuff for a living and happens to use an albuterol inhaler for emergencies. She seems to think it is okay to use as intended to mitigate the breathing issues, but is by no means a treatment/cure per se. She says the chloroquine and hydro +z-pack is to treat/mitigate the pnumonia effects that can accompany the virus. The virus itself will need a vaccine. Many are being worked on now as you all know.
She doesn’t think it will repair any damage already done to the lungs, but will help with breathing if wheezing/shortness of breathe occur.
Thank you – and THANK HER, TOO, PLEASE! 😀
Yes, this makes sense. Albuterol will get me by until either my body can repair some of the damage, or I can begin various therapies to mitigate the damage (e.g., stronger cardio, etc.)
wolfmoon1776
I agree with albuterol or some similar drug as a short term expedient, then moving to other therapy. When you can, getting x-rays / scans to evaluate lung damage will be invaluable to the care plan that will be developed.
I would also recommend that when it’s time for you to move into other therapy, requesting your doctor to order respiratory therapy for you, plus referring you to a pulmonologist, may be good to discuss with the MD.
Another aspect of this whole situation is something else I’ve seen — panic-anxiety issues that can happen as a result of bouts of shortness of breath. Not saying this will happen to you — just that I’ve observed it in other people who have breathing issues due to lung damage.
Thanks! I can totally see the anxiety developing! Loss of breathing is scary! That is why SARS is so Alinsky!
One thing I should mention as a general observation. If you use the same pharmacist all the time and maintain a friendly relationship, you can get REALLY INTERESTING information about the drugs you’ve been prescribed by chatting them up.
MDs specialize in diagnosing ailments — both diseases and injuries — and finding a “path to health” through changing your environment, circumstances, medication, or surgery. When they prescribe something, it’s a pill that’s supposed to help.
Pharmacists are trained in biochemistry and its interactions with the organism. It is a licensed profession with an advanced degree — unlike, say, a CPA which only requires a BA. They are expected to know how every medication that passes through their hands actually works — including peculiarities like interactions with grapefruit (many, including amlodopine and warfarin) or sunlight (many, including tetracycline). And once they’ve got a degree and a license, they spend much of their time supervising staff in counting pills. If you do your homework and can hold your own in an intelligent conversation with your pharmacist, they are generally happy to engage with you.
Of course, I have a leg-up in the process — my niece just got licensed in Oregon. She’s at her first real job, and already making about 4x what I made in my first professional accounting job. When I tell the pharmacist staff at my pharmacy how impressed I was with her academic achievements and how proud I am that she stuck it through all the work to get licensed, they feel kindly disposed towards me.
Oh, and as an example of how to maintain this relationship…..I finally got a script for generic Xanax for when I have blood work done. I’m wildly phobic about being punctured, and time spent drawing blood might as well be time with a six foot rattlesnake coiled on my chest at full rattle, trying to figure out how he can best inject my cheek. I’ve had four dental crowns done without anesthesia, because the pain of crown prep — for me — is less than the anxiety of anesthetic.
It was quite amusing to get. I ended up with a whompin’ ten pills, of which I still have seven. Anyway, when I finally got all the paperwork to align with astrological signs and government edicts, I took the pharmacist aside and asked, “I’m doing this, knowing that it might take me out for an entire day. And I didn’t even bother to ask the doc. But you can give me an answer that I can rely on — how long after this should it be safe for me to drive?” And, in truth, your pharmacist is much more familiar with everything relevant to give you a meaningful answer to that sort of question.
In a further entry on this thread — I called my sister to provide birthday greetings, and my niece happened to be there. My sister just recently refilled an albuterol script that she hadn’t been using for a while, and the niece helped jump through the hoops without commenting on effectiveness and made sure she got an effective dose.
So it doesn’t rise to the level where a trained pharmacist would yell, “MOM!!!! That’s POISON!!!”
THANKS!!!
Yes, on the pharmacists. When I was at a certain Big 10 institution of higher learning, I was in a dorm with a lot of pharmacy students. They used to bring back the stuff they made in the lab, like witch hazel suspensions, and talk about how the medicines worked.
And then they strived to take as few as possible. One room mate I had kept saying, pharmacists are 95% drug free, or something like that. That’s stuck with me.
Just throwing in my 2 cents. I have mild asthma, and many years ago I did use albuterol, but I got the side effects, even with one puff. I hated the side effects. I did a little research and found that goldenseal was supposed to help, so I purchased some. The type I purchase comes in a capsule that you can take apart. Since I am sensitive to some medications and am petite, I tried varying portions of the capsule, and timing. I found, that for me, it works best to take about 1/4 of the powder in the capsule just a little before going to bed. The material in the capsule appears to be powdered goldenseal, and it has an earthy, somewhat bitter flavor – kind of icky.
When my asthma is acting up, I will wheeze, get sleepy early, go to bed early and sleep late, like I’m not getting enough oxygen at night and cough up stuff in the morning. If I take the goldenseal, I sleep a more normal amount, am not tired (or very little), and don’t cough up nearly as much stuff in the morning. If I start wheezing a lot during the day, I will take some then, but usually I don’t need to unless the pollen is really bad.
I may actually need to try this. I’ll explain in a bit.
Wolfie, I have asthma and tightness in the chest pretty much all the time for the last couple of years thanks to a mold that was in my home. (Finally tore out the darn rug!)
Since the virus hit I have tried the treeper recommended anti-inflammatories that I could find.
I have been taking the High dose Vit C (3,000 mg) for anti viral activity.
D3 (5,000 IU)
two – B12 (2,500 mcg)
two -Turmeruc curcumin (500 mg)
Cinnamon 500 mg
CBD oil (1/3 recommended since my jaw is small)
Zinc
Selenium 200mcg (first thing in morning on empty stomach)
tri-iodine 12.5 mg ( tri = from three sources)
With the allergy season in full blast I just upped
Licorice root (450 mg from once a day to twice)
Nettle (870 mg from once a day to twice)
My eyes were itching and I took one antihistamine – NO EFFECT- first in a month. then I tried uping the Licorice root, Nettle and B12 to twice a day and no more trouble.
I have been on daily antihistamines for 60 years and going without for a month WITH NO PROBLEM? Unheard of.
EAD Nutritional Treatment of Coronavirus
From a fellow Q-Treeper (sorry I did not keep the Id) I have added the studies verifying the claims.
So way back when, late 1800’s into the early 1900’s the fasting doctors had to contend with grippe (influenza) and catarrh (inflamed sinuses). Available meds at the time where whatever the doctor concocted. Known as the dosage which could consist of a combination of milk and whiskey for example.
Some docs realized that doing nothing was more beneficial then doing something. They had to fight old sayings such as “feed a cold, starve a fever”. What they found is that extended water fasting cured many symptoms. Essentially, shut down digestion and let the body clean house and repair. Many of the foods we eat, carbs for example is what causes inflammation in our bodies.
Symptoms that we get when sick are basically the body trying to expel the infection. Cough, phlegm, puking, diarrhea etc. We typically take meds to suppress these symptoms which can actually delay healing.
So the theory is, don’t eat, drink as needed. Rest as needed. Let your body go to work. Long fasts, 20-30 days showed many examples of deep healing. A lot of these well documented by the docs of the time. They did not understand the science of the healing so much but they did get results. Basically though they were driven out of town by the medical community. Can’t make money telling your patient to just drink water.
Personally I am fasting on all my business trips as a self defense method. A crying shame as there is a Dickies BBQ right across from my hotel. But it would be the first thing I would do if I got into a health issue versus getting into the pill mill.
Lots of reading for those interested. Herbert Shelton, Bernarr MacFadden, Edward Dewey, Upton Sinclair, Bragg. Do your homework first. After all I am just a boiler inspector.
Yup. Patent medicines got BIG. TRUE.
So kiddo has what is called cough induced asthma syndrome which is treated like asthma.
He had severe upper respiratory illness plus the ivery bad tonsil/adenoids infections.
He had nebulized albuterol which never seemed to deliver well but helped. It goes in the air everywhere. Albuterol is fairly harmless. Its used in the hospital as much as ibuprofen or tylenol on many units.
Kiddo uses a spacer fir albuterol and it is more effective.
He also was given a steroid called flovent. He has lingering wet coughing, cant catch a great big breath. It helps but its only when he is sick. You also have to rinse your throat after dosing or you might get thrush.
I think youre fine with albuterol.
Good. I will likely start in very slowly. Safest way.
Yes and if youre using an inhaler shake that puppy up good before each puff. Good exhale before you dose, hold 10-15 seconds with each puff and 60 seconds between each successive puff. Best delivery and absorption.
How do I take a MICRO-PUFF for the first time? I likely need to LOW-DOSE, as I have TWO contraindications.
It’s going to be a little tricky to do that, now that I think about it.
You’d have to stop depressing the inhaler after only about a second of the puff.
Puff interruptus.
Then, in order to get it down into your lungs…you’ll have to finish taking a deep breath.
This is going to dilute the albuterol.
So it should be totally safe for you.
But you’re not going to get much relief from your shortness of breath, with only a partial, diluted micro-puff like that.
Thanks! I’ll get back to you with the results.
Usually the dose is 1-2 puffs 2x a day. You can take 1 puff which is half dose, if thats your dosage.
This is what I’m thinking.
Albuterol is titrated so it depends on the inhaler dose per puff.
Ill tell you his dose. Its for a 6 yr old so thats obviously not an adult dose but its slightly higher bc of his history. As needed 2-4 puffs every 4 hrs, 90 mcg per puff.
Yup. Mine is the same – 90 mcg/puff. So 1 puff is pretty mild.
I think youll be fine.
This post may not be welcome as it is not about the meds. Feel free to skip …
These are some herbal teas that may be helpful. I would read them over, make a list and then look into them a little more before ordering. Which will depending on your specific circumstances. One thing we still use medical establishment doctors to do is diagnosis – esp. definitive tests. If you know more details then you can choose your treatment.
In prepping for this virus, I made a little different choices than typical recommendations because I did not want the mucus producing herbs which are often good to soothe a dry cough and avoided elderberry due to the “storms”. Same will be for you…choosing based on pros/cons for your specific scenario.
Doesn’t take the place of meds if they are needed but can reduce how much you need and help things along in addition to meds or even shorten the time you need the meds.
Not total clear the issues but seems like lung healing v. needing expectorants.
Some of these are new to me but most I have used before and many I have on hand anyway. Coltsfoot is now on hand specifically for this virus, just in case.
“Elderberry juice is great for rejuvenating your lungs and jump starting your immune system plus soothing away irritation. Mullen which is used for colds and flues sooth away irritation… and jump start your healing process. Astragalus Root bringing energy into your lungs and opens bronchioles so you can breath.
Other herbs that heal the lungs after smoking are: Ballon Flower, Eucalyptus, Bromelian, Plum Flower, Chayote, Sterculia, Licorice Root, Plantain, Thyme, Goldenseal, Fennel, and even Chickweed.”
(https://omtimes.com/2013/01/natural-ways-to-stop-smoking-heal-lung-tissue/)
Take a daily supplement of coenzyme Q10 supplement (CoQ10), which can improve the use of oxygen at the cellular level. Take 60 mg twice a day of the softgel form, which is best absorbed when taken with a meal containing some fat.
Take the Chinese medicinal mushroom cordyceps, which may be useful in chronic lung disease. Look for capsules of cordyceps extract and follow the dosage directions on the product label.
Increase your dietary sources of carotenes, such as carrots, sweet potatoes, yellow squash and leafy green vegetables. Do not take straight beta-carotene supplements, however, as in smokers they may increase the chances of other lung problems. Your best bet is the mixed carotenoids found in these foods.
(https://www.drweil.com/health-wellness/body-mind-spirit/disease-disorders/undoing-lung-damage/)
some of this one is common sense (quality diet and improving/supporting immune system will help with any health problem) but the cod liver oil and the CoQ10 might be esp. good. Costco has a liquid CoQ10 that is reasonably priced.
(https://www.ndtv.com/health/7-effective-home-remedies-for-pulmonary-fibrosis-1877794)
Both of these have a general list of herbs and most we already use except I use Eucalyptus essential oil v. as an herb.
(https://globalhealing.com/natural-health/9-best-herbs-lung-cleansing-respiratory-support/)
(https://realfarmacy.com/14-plants-and-herbs-that-boost-lung-health-heal-respiratory-infections-even-repair-pulmonary-damage/)
If the virus is not over then consider olive leaf – good anti virus. Still mucus or is that over? Consider essential oils to help clear lungs and support immune system. If you think you might like some of the herbals, use as a tea, as an infusion or order tinctures which are extracts made for the herb being soaked in alcohol.
I recommend http://www.butterflyexpress.net
of course all these are just helpers not “cures” + they do not work as quickly as meds. They are comforters, helpers and lessen meds but not replacers in many cases. Just something to think about after you are more comfortable and have the urgent situation under control.
Thanks! All advice welcomed! 😀
Go information!
I might add that Ubiquinol is a more available form of coQ10.
I have been taking both – a small dose of Ubiquinol and the liquid CoQ10.
BTW – much more and more targeted info on supplements by Gail Combs on past WuFlu threads but I am sure we have all seen that. Large doses of Vit C as tolerated, zinc, etc.
If we are talking herbs for viruses – olive leaf is a good one. I like the shredded olive leaf from butterfly express but I buy the whole olive leaf too. Supposed to be very anti viral.
Anyway, for the virus I focused on expectorants, anti viral, immune boosting but stayed away from the “storm” producers, anti inflammatories, and circulation/blood oxygenators. Did not focus on anti coughs as often those are mucus forming + getting the yuck out is #1 in this virus – thinning and getting it out v. suppressing the cough and being comfortable. Focus on all things lung and then selected against mucus forming.
For recovery, after the infected mucus is out and deep congestion is no longer the problem maybe the soothing, normal mucus forming teas/herbs would be helpful again – like slippery elm. Frankincense is one of our favorite go to essential oils for coughs – calms the spasm right down. But we are Not using it this time as we would NEED to be productive in our coughing and getting out the mucus is #1 from what I have read of this virus and keeping oxygenated.
I am not an expert – just reading symptoms, patterns from the reports we have received and what I can find about the herbs, essential oils and OTC meds then choosing prayerfully and to the best of my ability. We also bought the non brand version of musinex to have on hand. Not against meds or doctors! 🙂
hot tea and hot broth will be soothing and helpful anyway. many places are running low. careful of your sourcing as many “made in china” and not trustworthy. 🙁
if budget is a concern – find someone to split the 1 lb bags. 1 lb of various herbal teas is a lot!
Just thought of lobelia. One of my least favorites as I think it tastes horrid but I have friends who think it taste ok. Anyway, was making a concoction for son just now and added a couple pinches and that is what made me think of it as one you might want to look up. I don’t think it was on the other lists.
Natural remedies are helps and take longer. Might want to think of these after you figure out your immediate, medical/meds based plan for immediate relief/help.
I use the coenzyme Q10 supplement (CoQ10) and have for years but that is to get rid of the darn hot flashes. Good for the heart too. I had a long discussion about it with a doctor (heart specialist) from India. He said they are not doing the studies on it because there is no money in an OTC but it is well known for helping the heart in India.
We were doing a birthday party and most of the guest were from the UNC hospital.
I can tell you albuterol modulates your potassium, shifting it back into your cells. This is a good thing in the case of Wuhan Virus since it depletes your potassium.
NICE!!! Great point!!!
One thing many people are not aware of is how the ARB drugs are “potassium sparing” which means you can end up with too much of it in the system. I wonder if that would be a “feature” while fighting a virus?
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I’ve been looking for a place to put this from my own experience with breathing/coughing up a lung, etc.
Okay, so I’m a singer, and EXTREMELY sensitive to dry air and taking it in on an inhale. Dry air, plain and simply, is my enemy. It dries EVERYTHING as fast as I have to take in a breath to set the diaphragm and support mechanism. Unfortunately, with air conditioning and forced air heat, dry air is my life which is part of the reason why I carry a bottle of water everywhere.
That being the case, I’ve noticed a familiar pattern this year. I’m at home where I have a pot of water steaming on the stove, and keep the air moist, and do the nasal irrigation thing, and I’m pretty much okay. I leave the house, go out into cool/cold DRY air, and WHOA, NELLIE! the nasal and lung passages don’t like it. I start to snot up, and cough up a lung to the point that people will stare. It eventually will stop, but it takes a while. This did contribute to dropping out of more than one choir. In future winters, I would like to try a mask to see if I can prevent this with that simple, but in the meantime…cough, cough, cough.
The thing is that since I live in a house with plaster walls, living in humid air is not an issue. Plaster doesn’t breed black mold the same way sheet rock does. It can be a problem inside the walls eventually, but the older building materials are more conducive to a healthier air supply. So, running humidifiers is part of my remedy. And, unfortunately, those old-fashion whole house humidifiers from my childhood that were like furniture don’t seem to be made any more.
Just a suggestion for you: home humidity helps.
Excellent – will do!!!
gab pls
And keeping temps higher in the house + humidity would be better for shortening duration of viruses on surfaces…
Wolfie,
On the humidity. Our HVAC system died and instead of replacing we have gone with window A/C (you can CLEAN THEM!) and plug-in oil radiators. I slap a rectangular Pyrex dish on the one in the bedroom and fill it with water.
I also inhale the steam off my tea kettle each morning while my tea is brewing. It helps A LOT in keeping my lungs happy. So does a cup of hot tea.
I absolutely HATE forced air heating and cooling and plan to install new ONLY when we have to sell the place. We are in NC and really do not need it. Plus we cut our electric bills in 1/2
We got a new furnace system, Lenox brand, with a humidifier because we’d never had one before & temps in winter felt so much worse, plus cracked & bleeding skin, compared to when we had gas furnace augmented w/ a wood stove (in another home) on which we always kept something simmering for humidity. We can input the humidity level now up to 45% & Winters are Much more comfortable!
This is off the cuff without reading any comments & based on my experience with this med.
My special needs son was hospitalized twice in his first year of life w/RSV. He was on meds for sure the first admission (lasix & aldactone for congestive heart failure as a 4 pound premie post-open heart surgery). He may have been on those meds for the 2nd RSV hospitalization (I don’t recall now & he’d had another surgery between the RSV hospitalizations). I believe that they used Albuterol for both RSV hospitalizations but am not sure.
After numerous infections of bronchititus, bronchiolitis, & possible pneumonia they decided to say he was asthmatic. They prescribed a nebulizer to aerosolize the albuterol. We also had to use chest percussions with a light plunger type device on the end of a plastic stick or using our cupped hands. He had “persistent tachypnea” (irregular breathing or possibly heartbeat?) with “intercostal retractionis” (you could see the sucking in of muscles between his ribs when he was breathing) & we’d administer this nebulized albuterol (or if out & about with an inhaler with a “spacer” that allowed him to rebreath the inhaler albuterol a number of times because his autism meant he couldn’t coordinate his inhalations w/ the regular delivery of inhaler meds).
Some time later he had a bout of “croup” (we were out of town & this was the ER doc’s diagnosis, when we described the incident to his regular doc she said it was Not croup). He may have been having a particulate or allergic reaction. (He’d been sleeping on a couch covered by an old furniture cover that had some type of perhaps rubber backing that was so old & desiccated that it had crumbled into dust. He awoke in the middle of the night barely able to breath & as we rushed him to the hospital, my husband driving & me holding him & fervently praying I believed he was going to die in my arms & I was trying to calm him & prepare him to pass into glory without simultaneously adding to his pretty intense fear as he desperately gasped for each breath.)
Anyway in the ER they gave him numerous doses/treatments of albuterol using a nebulizer type delivery system. This went on for a few hours before his breathing was stable enough to send him home, without further meds prescribed, iirc. I don’t remember what year this happened but he was likely on at least some type of ADHD medicine (at a minimum) at that time (Wellbutrin OR Straterra OR Straterra & Paxil…& he may have then been on some type of high blood pressure meds too &/or antibiotics, not sure exactly)…He never had Any negative reactions to any form of albuterol that I can recall…Oh he may have been given albuterol by nebulizer on the 3+ hour ambulance ride from Gaylord to Ann Arbor the week he came home from the hospital following heart surgery–I don’t remember that part but I do recall the ambulance attendants communicating with life flight multiple times during our snow storm journey in case he needed to be airlifted–quite the ride…In reflection it seems likely that they used albuterol since his breathing was of sufficient concern for the local Northern Michigan doctor to order him taken 250 miles South by ambulance rather than waiting for our family to gather items & transport him ourselves…
If I recall correctly Albuterol is quite safe to use, doesn’t really interact with other meds, but may lead to someone being more “hyper” than usual. This perspective seems somewhat contradicted by the packaging info I just scanned or the packaging might be more “butt coverage” & my recall be from what doctors told us privately???
I found an old inhaler package w/ insert from Feb 2015, here’s what Might be pertinent. Any questions you have based on the package insert I’ll try to answer if you reply to me with them…
Brand Name: ProAir HFA (albuterol sulfate) Inhalation Aerosol
PROAIR HFA INHALATION AEROSOL IS A BETA-ADRENERGIC AGONIST INDICATED For use in patients 4 years old & older to 1. “treat or prevent bronchospasm in people who have reversible obstructive airway disease: & 2. “prevent exercise induced bronchospasm”.
VC Note: most of my family has either illness, exercise, or temp induced “asthma” so most have used albuterol without any known issues, from pre-pubescent, adolescent, through mature adulthood–most also had ADHD…
Back to packaging info:
It shouldn’t be used by people allergic to albuterol sulfate or other ingredients (inactive ingredients: propellant HFA-134a & ethanol)…
Notify doctor if you have any of these conditions:
heart problems
high blood pressure (hypertension)
convulsions (seizures)
thyroid problems
diabetes
low potassium levels in blood
pregnancy
breastfeeding
“PROAIR HFA & OTHER MEDICINES MAY AFFECT EACH OTHER & CAUSE SIDE EFFECTS…[IT] MAY AFFECT THE WAY OTHER MEDICINES WORK, & OTHER MEDICINES MAY AFFECT THE WAY PROAIR HFA WORKS”
Especially tell your doctor if you take:
other inhaled medicines or asthma medicines
beta blocker medicines
diuretics
digoxin
monoamine oxidase inhibitors
tricyclic antidepressants
VC note, I don’t know For Sure if albuterol was used for both of my son’s RSV hospitalizations, but he was on something that acted like digoxin in the 1st & possibly 2nd RSV hospitalization. He MAY have been on either an MAO inhibitor or a tricyclic antidepressant (Wellbutrin or Paxil???) in the ER “croup” event when he received numerous doses of albuterol consecutively with no obvious problems I recall…
Back to the packaging:
Possible SERIOUS side effects:
worsening trouble breathing, coughing & wheezing (paradoxical bronchospasm)
heart problems including faster heart rate & higher blood pressure
possible death in people with asthma who use too much Proair HFA
allergic reactions (itchy skin, swelling beneath skin or in throat, rash, worsening trouble breathing)
low potassium levels in your blood
worsening of other medical problems including increases in blood sugar
MOST COMMON side effects:
racing or pounding heart (palpitations)
chest pain
fast heart rate
shakiness
nervousness
headache
dizziness
sore throat
runny nose
Well my eyes are starting to cross or glaze over so I’ll leave it at this for now…I hope I haven’t duplicated someone else’s material here…if so sorry…
God Bless!!!
Thanks!!! Very helpful!!!
I’m pretty sure I’ve had this stuff before in some breathing test. But I’ll be careful for sure!
Croup and similar are scary stuff just in a healthy child. You have my sympathy for all you went through – WOW.
Yeah, that incident was one of the most acutely & intensely scary w/ our son. Waiting on a liver to be available for transplant was excruciating in a whole different way. It went on for a year & a half & every 3 months we were told by the transplant team that they were “sure” we’d get the liver before the next clinic visit. Once we got put “on call” for a liver that was assigned to someone ahead of Josiah, but apparently their condition was so tenuous that it was anticipated that they might die on the table so they wanted our son NPO & on deck for that liver if the first patient didn’t make it.
Well that scenario was absolutely unacceptable (I was already having a hard time with the fact that someone would die for our son to get the needed transplant & had been in fervent prayer for that family ever since J was listed for transplant)…anyway we called family together & activated prayer trees on behalf of that other recipient & apparently they pulled through since the Peds Liver Transplant Team confirmed that they hadn’t lost a liver patient since our son was on the list. That was such a huge relief & answer to prayer that our son didn’t get a liver that TWO people died to get to him. It did, however, prolong our agonizing weight of waiting for about another year…
Sometimes when you think back on certain things you’ve already made it through it can almost be overwhelming to reflect on the experience. Like a delayed reaction. This really happened to me the night of my one and only rappelling experience. Just reflecting on the leaping off the edge of the cliff or the time another person almost died because the person who set up the rappelling rope hadn’t put sufficient rope over the cliff to reach the canyon floor actually On the rope…well those reflections gave me near panic attacks & heart palpitations for quite a while & it was hard to sleep. Funny because there was no longer any danger but my thoughts made it still impactful to me. I wonder if something similar happens to others after difficult or traumatic or combat experiences?
And THAT is why we cavers put an OH SH!T foot loop in the end of our ropes! 😁
Very useful when you have to switch over to climbing gear while hanging in mid air (BTDT and NEVER want to do it again!)
Good idea! Uses more rope than an “oh shit” knot, but much easier to begin remediation operations! First move is already there!
I Almost got to go spelunking with that same group but my then boyfriend broke up with me & I let his friends be just His…my loss & theirs! He wasn’t much of a loss though, LOL…I was one of those long & winding road types on the way to Mr. Right. God’s guy Is worth waiting for. Wish Sarah & Abraham would have waited for God’s promise to be fulfilled as stated–the world without Ishmael would likely be much less bloody.
Yes. As I understand it, any difficult experience that does not get fully “digested” will linger and pop up again when something in your current life experience feels similar.
There are various things people do to complete that process of fully digesting a strong emotional memory. EMDR attempts to use eye movement while verbal processing to integrate body-felt and cognitive experience. It requires special training because you don’t want someone to get traumatized during the therapy.
The Immanuel Approach as taught by Karl Lehman, MD is very helpful because the initial focus is on developing a felt sense of the presence of Jesus. And he never has you go somewhere Jesus is not leading you to go, which is quite protective against re-traumatization.
Very interesting. I heard of EMDR years ago & it doesn’t sound like something I’d be much interested in–I touched on that topic a bit obliquely in this post:
https://specialconnections.wordpress.com/2018/09/09/special-needs-parenting-trauma-ptsd/
The Immanuel Approach sounds very interesting. It reminds me, at least superficially, of some prayer & share times I had with a friend who’d been molested by family members as a child. We would come before the Lord & ask for the Holy Spirit to guide our discussions & to provide covering & protection as we ended up exploring painful memories.
I guess I would “feel safer” in a more overt Spirit-led process where He is at work in doing whatever deep dive might be warranted at the moment instead of “artificially” breaking down those barriers with a more secular style of “spirituality” like seems to go along with EMDR…
I’ll have to look into Dr. Lehman’s materials at some point…so thank you so much for the signpost! Blessings
just saw this thread…hubby had the pacemaker installed almost 2 years ago and experiences Afib occasionally. he also smoked for 40 years–quit the day he got the pacemaker.
he had shortness of breath–they tested and determined he has mild COPD. he was prescribed a daily inhaler and albuterol as his rescue inhaler.
he has not noticed any problems with his heart rate when he uses the albuterol.
when he was diagnosed, the doctor pulled out a laminated card (place mat sized)with dozens of available inhalers–both for daily and rescue use…she told him, they would begin with one and if there were side effects, he could switch to another—but he hasn’t had any problems with the albuterol. (she told us it was the most well tolerated medicine…)
Awesome! Thanks! That is very reassuring!
I hope you sort of out your breathing issues!!
as a spouse it was terrifying the first time he couldn’t catch his breath.
but now with the meds, he does most everything he did before we even exercise regularly. he has the most trouble in cold, windy weather.
please take care of yourself!!!
Thanks! I’m very hopeful.
Yes, I can imagine now. Much easier for me to have sympathy for people with COPD, emphysema, etc.
I waited for a bad day to start trying albuterol. Today is the day. Fingers crossed!
i forgot to tell you!!
2 years ago hubby had bronchitis–and along with a steroid–they gave him an albuterol inhaler to use if he needed it…and that was while he was still smoking…
it’s really the most easily tolerated inhaler they have i think.
GOOD LUCK!
The only problem I can see with OTC inhaler like Primatene mist (Epinephrine) is IF you have an infection it could help drive it deeper into your lungs.
No real data just experience with the one really nasty case of flu I had. Used the inhaler and I can not remember the next three days LITERALLY. I was that sick.
I got the Hong Kong flu (1969) and had no real problem but the Bangkok A flu (1980) flattened me.
AND IT SHOULD NOT HAVE!
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1981/1/12/influenza-strain-afflicts-harvard-pa-new/
“…The new strain of influenza, Bangkok A, is similar to the Hong Kong flu and shares essentially the same symptoms– coughing, chills, body aches, headaches and a low fever. Because of its relation to the Hong Kong flu, most people have developed some immunity to the Bangkok A strain, Wacker said….”
My fever was sky high which is why I can not remember anything.
(I was living near HAAaaavard at the time too.)
In other news…
Gov. officials trying to stop the use of a therapy that can save lives?