As much as I utterly DESPISE “process over people”, I always found MEETINGS OF ACTUAL GEEKS WITH MINIMAL MANAGEMENT useful when there were too many people to look over one person’s shoulder comfortably in a GEEK CUBICLE. So – “declared meetings” have their uses. Here, if only to consolidate suggestions so I can find them later.
My mission in moving us to a WOKE-FREE SITE was so I could quickly get back to WAR in the immediate future. That is where my next posts will be going – back to POLITICS and away from I.T.
*** WAR ***
However, right now, we do have a lot of good geeky thoughts flying around. I want to capture them, even if I am going to INFO-GUNS right away (because THE BUSINESS is ultimately WHY WE ARE HERE).
Thoughts can go here. Including:
- whether we want to STICK WITH THE NEW COMMENTING SYSTEM
- whether I should get the tweet and video plugin extensions NOW (answer to above being YES)
- features that we absolutely need NOW to FIGHT
- features we need to add – but which will probably be LATER
- tips and tricks for others to get online and FIGHTING
- anything GEEKY
OK? GOOD! Have at it! Just remember – we FIGHT FIRST and repair the broken weapons LATER, when there is a break in the fighting.
So we STAND NOW!
W
Hey boss…did you do something that allows videos to display now?
Because I was just putting together the Monday open thread post, and I was just going to leave a link to a video…but the link opened up into a displayed video.
So I’m thinking, hey hey hey — we got videos now.
😄
We have videos in POSTS, but not in comments unless I pay the toll – which I will probably do.
Ah, okay.
I hate for you to have to pay for it.
It’s cheap enough. And we get EMOJIS and a bunch of other small goodies, too. I just want to make sure that everybody is 100% on the idea of “marrying” this commenting system.
It’s taking time to get used to it.
I like the format and I am an computer idiot but seems easy to figure out. I just investigate every icon I see and that helps.
Most people seem to have figured out the system and post happy away.
I used to be on a blog run by a person on the Scottish Island and was fun had most of the icons we have here. The guy who run it was an IT specialist and big Susan Boyle fan.
I do miss the old method of ‘Likes’…with being able to see who liked something.
And — getting notifications of likes.
My Bell notifications are sort of intermittent, on replies.
Some replies show up there…and some don’t.
Grandma’s thread on 12/4 was problematic for JetPack – replies through JetPack were not even possible. We have to see if things level out. I’m getting 100% performance myself – but clearly the LIKES get lost in some fashion, b/c of the new commenting system not recording them on the page.
I agree with Wheatie2 on the likes, but I want to be able to “like” comments, and I can’t. I also do not understand “follow this user”. It doesn’t seem to do anything. Also, just to remember some of us do ot use a mouse–I use my keyboard with JAWS speech and brave. Some features are just so visual, and I do understand that is helpful to some. I just feel the less cluttered the better, simple is good. My friend who comes over about twice a month is coming over to help me with computer stuff tomorrow–I am going to show him the blog as it is currently. Thank you for all the hard work.
Good – I think your friend may provide a good reference point. If he is able to get you comfortable with things, great. If not – we will have to look into it more deeply.
ZOE!!..YOU make me happy!!
This is going to be a weird request, but can you visit http://politicalhat.com/ and let me know if anything special comes up for you? He’s got a badge in his RH column that says “This site is Braille captioned for the vision impaired” and I have no idea if it (a) means anything, (b) works, or (c) is useful.
I should point out that I have spent some time with Hat IRL, and he’s a really nice guy. He’s essentially in Vegas.
And if you ever have a chance to take him to the National Atomic Testing Museum (in Las Vegas), take it. He’s pretty fun at the Mob Museum, as well.
My bells are GONE!!! i HAVE NO IDEA WHO RESPONDS TO ME…sADZ!!!
I hate to suggest logging in, because that is how to get your bells back, but if you are NOT on an iPad and NOT on an iPhone, then logging in with your WordPress account is the fastest way to get your bells back!
The LOG IN is down at the bottom of the sidebar on the RIGHT. You will get moderated the first time you log in that way.
It says I’m logged in👀
Before I got a wp account, I used to scroll a LOT to see if people responded to my few comments. Yes, it is a pain, but it does work. If you are on a tablet or phone, I would imagine it’s an even bigger pain!
That is one reason why I suggested the Newest comment at the end system instead of the indented system.
You just copy and paste the sentence or two you are responding to and the commenters name so continuity is maintained.
This means you do not have to jump all over the page of pages to see the newest comments and you do not miss any.
Since a lot of people are using Iphones or tablets where scrolling can be a problem, this might be a better system.
I am on a desk top but I do not use a notification system of any kind.
can we sleep with it a few times to make sure we’re compatible??
asking for a friend….
“Finally, someone who truly completes me in bed!”
“She was great on dates but she’s terrible in the bedroom!”
http://www.indya101.com/funnypictures/People/2012/10/15/Funny_Boy_Sleeping_in_Bed_with_Computer_GF_czlkr_Indya101(dot)com.jpg
LOL
Heck – you can even run back to “old boyfriend Jet Pack Comments”! 😀
Seriously, I can put us all back on the old platform if people need to try it out again.
pat!! Ya kill me!!!🤣🤣
So…. a shotgun wedding it is
Happy to chip in.
agreed!!!
The plugin extension handles a LOT of videos, too.
I may be able to get their “free trial” as well! But I think their pack is such a good deal, it’s almost a sure thing if we stay with this format of comments.
It’s nice to have all the additional tools in the comment boxes.
I just have to figure out how they all work.
🤪🤭
Bait and SELL! 😉 Gotta run. TTYL.
Can it be used for other comment formats as well?
Is it a one-time pay, or recurring?
They are technically “add-ons” to the basic wpDiscuz, so almost certainly will NOT work with other systems.
There is a recurring yearly fee if you want updates, but the money involved is not stated. No more than the initial fee, I would think, although the initial fee is highly discounted, supposedly, so who knows what games are in store? But sans updates, it’s ours to keep on as many sites as I want.
But I just did now! Enjoy!!!
Replacing one broken platform with another broken platform is the life of IT.
self generating, income enhancing service calls?
No, more like there’s no perfect system and we’re always stuck with bugs and integrations that don’t work.
OK, for the third time…..
Just in case anyone else is thinking about pimpin’ this out with extra chrome, custom paint with flames, fuzzy dice on the mirror, air shocks, and a custom steering wheel….
You can download the theme here, even if you don’t have a LAMP stack or WordPress install — https://wordpress.com/theme/independent-publisher-2 .
You don’t need a whole lot of programming skillz to suggest things to Wolf like:
In the file 404.php , in line 19, consider changing the line from
” <p><?php esc_html_e( ‘It looks like nothing was found at this location. Maybe try one of the links below or a search?’, ‘independent-publisher-2’ ); ?></p>
”
to
” <p><?php esc_html_e( ‘Even Q doesn’t know what you are looking for. Maybe try one of the links below or a search?’, ‘independent-publisher-2’ ); ?></p> ”
As always when dealing with php, make sure you preserve the indent.
The theme includes everything that sets this theme apart from other themes. For instance, there is a section (lines 38-42) in the file footer.php that says:
<div class=”site-info”>
<a href=”<?php echo esc_url( __( ‘http://wordpress.org/’, ‘independent-publisher-2’ ) ); ?>”><?php printf( esc_html__( ‘Proudly powered by %s’, ‘independent-publisher-2’ ), ‘WordPress’ ); ?></a>
<span class=”sep”> | </span>
<?php printf( esc_html__( ‘Theme: %1$s by %2$s.’, ‘independent-publisher-2’ ), ‘Independent Publisher 2’, ‘<a href=”http://raamdev.com/” rel=”designer”>Raam Dev</a>’ ); ?>
</div><!– .site-info –>
Look at the bottom of this page.
How easy would it be to make this say: “Theme: Independent Publisher 2, as maintained by wolves.”?
I’m poking around in the theme files, trying to find the page widget. After that, I’ll need to find the widget for the tops of comment sections. It should be as easy as copying one to the other to put the page widget at the top and bottom of comments pages.
As we get practiced with this, we’ll be able to look at OTHER THEMES and raid them for goodies….
OK, I believe that the comment page widget is in the file comments.php, lines 58-68. This is already duplicated in lines 36-46, so I’m not getting why we don’t already have a comment page widget both at the top and at the bottom….
Time for some expectation management! 😉
It has not happened, because it won’t happen until “Wolf’s Extreme Security” – which was trained by a woman who evaded the Gestapo by not even trusting her own flesh and blood – deals with the suggestion of an almost-anonymous stranger on the internet.
Wolf’s Extreme Security, which was never even allowed to use PHP, by the only cybersecurity officer Wolf ever really trusted.
Wolf’s Extreme Security, which will make you want to pull out your hair, but which ALMOST ALWAYS foiled or outed the bad guys.
Convenience is the enemy of security. ALWAYS.
I treat your suggestion with every bit of seriousness as the good suggestions Wolf got from Chinese “probably not spies”, and the evil suggestions he got from Chinese, Russian, and American “probably somebody’s spies”.
I said that I wanted to collect the suggestions FOR LATER. This is exactly why some will go later.
I deal with any request to bypass Wolf’s Extreme Security by handing off the case to my assistant.:wink:
But more seriously, I want to study the code, and that is not happening now, because that is not the mission. No code gets rushed on the site. PERIOD.
Are you aware of the primary security issue of what you just suggested? I don’t even know PHP, and I already found it IN PRINT. You are welcome to find it, too. But I find it useful to keep it to myself.
On a slightly different note, the PHP manual is itself in HTML, but has a large section regarding security.
Good! That manual will need a good look, too. External criticism of PHP, like any language, is always only half the story.
Well, you actually used a term I like, html. Ha ha.
My favorite tech term of all time is ‘POTS’. It’s one of the first terms ever made up.
What? Forgot POTS?
Plain Old Telephone Service. Now that’s how to run an internet with just four wires. Except, to keep it safe and simple, only use two wires and ignore the other two.
LOL! You’re approved now – the first two comments. Try one more!
And yeah, I remember POTS! There’s another term like that I’m trying to think of…….. DANG!
GOMER? Used in hospitals for “Get Outta My Emergency Room” — covers hypochondriacs and drunks.
OMG, I remember that one, too. 😀
NTSC (video standard) — Never Twice the Same Color?
“Official” PHP is at https://www.php.net/ . They have a documentation tab.
This language has a cute logo but an appalling history!
Actually, that’s not their current logo, according to https://www.php.net/download-logos.php .
But I’m right with you about the history. Just one aspect of it — the changes where “features” mysteriously appear in one rev, and old “features” deprecate out with gay abandon — is enough to set my teeth on edge.
….and, then, there’s https://bugs.php.net/
Just to make you aware, sometimes I see the elephant PHP and sometimes I see a link to it labelled “comment image”. I think it depends on how busy my browser is when I refresh the page.
I don’t expect you to do anything about it, but it may come in handy to know.
I know some are pushing for forum style (no nesting of replies under what they replied to). But I am going to assume here we’re sticking with the “nested” or “tree” format. (It’s called a “tree” because you can think of replies as branching off from what they are replying to.)
Here’s my wish list assuming we stick with trees/nesting:
1) New comments entered at the BOTTOM, and when posted, they go to the BOTTOM. (This is the way the old site worked.) The current system requires people to reload the page to get them to sort properly. It also, even on replies, puts your reply above other replies, again until you reload the page.
2) Page number selector at the top as well as at the bottom. (Actually, this is on my wish list no matter what system we go to, unless we severely shorten the length of a page.)
3) The orange overlay on the green bubble to the lower right is basically useless.
Things I like about this (just to be a bit positive):
1) I like the yellow highlighting of new comments as a concept–one can scroll down the page and instantly see what’s new and not have to re-read everything…but it’s glitchy.
If you reload a page the yellow highlighting goes away. And of course if you are on page three and decide to see what’s new on page 2, the new load of page two won’t have the highlights. Yesterday, I tried having a tab open for every page, so I could go back and scroll through them. But then EVERY top-level comment (that gets put at the top until you reload) appeared on EVERY open tab, not just the ones for the last page!! (This makes me suspect we can’t get rid of this silly new comments at the top thing readily. Honestly, who made that decision?)
Also at least one person is having their page “jump” every time a new comment gets added above where they are (and most go above where they are).
What would be ideal here would be a marking that goes away when you click somewhere on the post, and ONLY when you do so. That’s probably utterly beyond your control, however!!
For “Forum Style”, where all new comments go to the bottom and there’s no nesting (if you switch to that) really, the only things I would want are consistent bottom of the page for new comments (but do not jump there), a reply button on every comment, and a default to quoting the post you are replying to when you hit reply. I suspect a lot of people would absolutely HATE forum-style though; they like the reply being directly below what it is a reply to.
I do know of a couple of sites that do forum style correctly, but I would doxx myself if I told you which ones.
The thing about “Forum Style” is that it doesn’t handle the flow of time. You’d have “Steve’s Coin Corner” where you could add posts weekly, but people enjoy having it spaced out in time so that each one is fresh. It’s nice to have topics interwoven, rather than separated.
Well, I guess that depends on whether you’re looking WITHIN a post, where it does so flawlessly, versus stepping back and looking at multiple posts.
I’m actually talking about the way the comments are organized IN a post, rather than the organization OF the posts, for which I would agree the blog format is much to be preferred.
Steve thank you for giving me the actual word I needed to describe the comment posting format I like — FORUM vs Nested.
It certainly makes it easier to make sure you get to read ALL the comments.
Now I have to periodically go back to previous pages and do a ‘find’ on my name to see it anyone entered a comment under one of my comments.
(I do not use any notification system.)
Unfortunately someone already misunderstood what I meant and thought I wanted the site organized like a forum, rather than just the comments on a post.
Yeah, that forum crap was ALL ME testing the waters on that possibility – yet another discussion.
I think I see where I’m going to fit that into “the plan” as a distant possible addition to the site – a kind of rabbit hole repository, rather than a front end. It may end up getting populated by LURKERS, because forums feel more comfortable to them in general.
Any forum sideshow would, if added, be in the DISTANT future. We have basic commenting priorities now and in the immediate future.
Agreed.
I suppose it could serve as a way to sidebar posts, too.
The difficulty would be making sure that those stay on topic.
We can call it “forum-style replies” vs. “nested replies”, and it will be clear!
Scott, using both actual block quotes, and his homemade block quotes, is another strong user of forum style. Note that the new system has a great GRAPHICAL WAY of applying block quotes.
Simply copy the text, paste it into your top-level reply, highlight it, and hit the quote button. Add “so-and-so said” as needed.
I agree with this wish list as well. Especially #1. I prefer the old way that the comments were sorted.
Everything you said, ESPECIALLY 1 and 2!
I can adapt, but those two things seem important, just for ease of navigation and use.
I agree with all of this.
I dug into this problem. All of it can be “fixed”, and fixed SECURELY, but not right now. This is a standard coding problem – doing it right takes time. It will require several days of work where I basically abandon monitoring comments on the site, and our primary purpose, and leave people in a lurch, like I did recently. Not happening until maybe February or March. Right now, we get everybody on board the ship. Also, getting totally familiar with the WARTS will aid in their removal later.
But it CAN be done. We CAN do it, 100% guaranteed, and without compromise on security.
Wolfie!! you always…make me… Stronger…….
Cool, I can wait if I know it’s coming.
(But why haven’t you arrested anyone?)
If the bottom versus top thing is so important that it has to be fixed now, then I say we should abandon the new system completely.
….and go back to Jet-Pack? I think the time for massive “abandon what we have” is long past, and the burden of effort should be on something provably better. Anyone can kvetch at something in front of them, but wholesale nihilism never improves anything.
And, for the record, it IS strange that comments are at the top and get sorted into the thread out-of-order until you do a refresh. But I can live with that, especially with the knowledge that so much can be customized once we’re past our present emergency.
That’s what I’m thinking, too.
This thread has been helpful in assessing what CAN be done – and that is helpful in making these decisions:
YES – we stay with the new commenting platform
YES – we buy the upgrades – RIGHT NOW (realistically in the morning, but yeah, right now)
YES – we make some code changes – and we know what we want to do – but not right now
So thanks to everybody for the input. Keep it coming, but bear in mind the above, in terms of when things will get done.
What do you mean by new system? Go back to wqth.wordpress?
This bothers a lot of people but I think they can deal with it if they know it’s temporary.
What I mean is this, bearing in mind that there will soon be NO going back to wqth.wordpress.com.
The “new system” is wpDisquz as the page comment manager, while retaining as much of JetPack as possible for notifications.
The “old system” was “JetPack for everything” – page commenting system, including likes, and the notifications.
My read of things is that going back to the old system (getting rid of wpDisquz) would actually be a “slow failure” – very unwise, long-term.
I think that adding the paid package will provide much satisfaction – enough that going back will not seem like an option to most of us.
And I think once we perform the needed changes to the deep layout, there will be zero sentiment to go back.
Yep.
I’m hoping the upside-down-ness is a code change someone can eventually figure out.
Count me among those who do NOT miss embedded shit. If I might suggest, though, that you STRONGLY urge people to put a description under their links. In the case of the YT video it could just be the title that would normally appear on the video (copy/past from Youtube page).
Yes – bare links are “scroll-by” material for me, pretty much all the time. People need to understand that it’s really worth their while to explain what things are, even just a few words.
I’ve already figured out the larger architecture of what I consider acceptable code change to the upside-down-ness – THAT was the key thing I had to do before committing to it. If it was not *possible* at a very basic level to make the modifications CORRECTLY and SECURELY, I was not going to make a commitment to even try.
But no – it CAN be done securely – and to MY definition of security – more rigorous than most, because it is very “conservative”.
I worked with a “rainmaker” who created very useful but untrustworthy systems, and saw the downstream effects when the piper had to be paid. NOPE. Not gonna be me. The changes will be done CORRECTLY and DEFENSIBLY.
Steve, what you said makes sense to me. And I agree with you. For whatever that’s worth. (Possibly a viewing of the pizza bathrub girl gif)
Can we get the version of PHP used on the site?
My assistant is researching that as we speak! He may get back to me, but he’s very finicky! 😀
Of course, there’s other ways….
https://www.epik.com/hosting/ suggests it’s PHP7. You could also use Ruby on Rails, Perl, Python, SSI, CGI, and Fast CGI.
Epik also mentions cPanel — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPanel — which seems to come in three versions — a server owners’ version, a server reseller’s version, and a site owner’s version. The server owners’ version includes automated updates of Apache, PHP, and MySQL. Various installation scripts (Installatron, Fantastico, Softaculous, and WHMSonic) would handle installation and update of WordPress, probably at the reseller level.
You should also have access to phpMyAdmin, which can come in handy for ad-hoc database accesses. You could, for instance, run a report of all unique commenters in the database. You could run monthly reports to indicate who among our number are the most shameless blabbermouths for that month — both by # of comments and by total comment length.
And, yes, I realize you have bigger fish to fry at the moment. But you have so much opportunity!!!!
Yes, we do have an amazing amount of opportunity. And we WILL take advantage of it in the spring, after things “cool down”.
Right now, though, we really must prepare for what is coming.
These two months are going to shake the world, and the heavens.
You already did a great job of preserving this site and this community. Didn’t you say that you scooped up a bunch of suffixes and they all forward here?
Is there a darkweb ICANN that can get you a couple more? Since Obama *spit* sold out Americans again by placing the original developed with taxpayer money into the hands of our enemies?
This is on a burner so far back, it’s in my neighbor’s yard! 😀 😉
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Ded!
And the heavens!!! In yer foxhole darlin!
“Have at it! Just remember – we FIGHT FIRST and repair the broken weapons LATER”
.
.. keep communication with those on your left and right , Keep moving forward.
Keep FIGHTING !!
If your weapon malfunctions
…utilize dropped, unused field contraband (weapons).
Remember that French firearms are the BEST “Used” firearms available.
They have NEVER been Fired…. and only dropped ONCE! 🙂
I’m a fan of OLD RIFLES. Some surprisingly good “dropped zero times” stuff out there! 😉
Wolf,
My apologies for chiming in because I’m the LAST person anybody would include in a tech discussion.
However, if you need some extra funds to have extra bells and whistles you need, please count me in for stepping up to the plate.
OK – if we ever do anything BIG – likely a LONG time in the future – I’ll let you know. But for now, we’re in good shape!
Same here, keep me on your list Wolf!
Will do!
This is helpful in figuring out what is responsible for something on a visible page:
https://developer.wordpress.org/themes/basics/template-hierarchy/
I would really love to see videos and tweets in comments again. Every time I see a POTUS tweet, I want to go like it and retweet it, but most of the time, people don’t leave a link. And some tweets I want to read the discussion. But without a link, it’s really hard to find. And some of the videos that get posted are really good, but with just a link you have no idea what it’s about or whether you want to watch it. JMHO
One problem I was having with the site yesterday was that when I refreshed the page, often comments would show up on top of each other. It would take several refreshes to clean up. I don’t know what that was about. I haven’t had that problem today.
That comment pile-up sounds like server slowness. I’ll keep an eye out for it!
My suggestion:: When posting a link to the YT video, include the title from the YT page as plain text so people can quickly decide whether it’s worth watching.
A lot of interesting comments here! I feel like I’m peering through the woods and getting glimpses of what Wolf, Cthulhu and Steve are talking about – I find it fascinating.
Safety first is a good motto. I like the idea of keeping this form/template, it appears to have more options in some respects than the other form. Whatever form is used is going to take some “getting broken in” by everyone, and we have a good community of people that are not bashful about commenting and are very good about helping each other.
As far as the vids, tweets, and images, if a link is provided, it’s easy to open them up in another tab, but it is helpful to give a brief description of what the link is for – say, tweet about wuflu stats or meme about aunty fas getting their butts handed to them in a hat. I do that when providing a link to my kids, so if they want to look at it they can or pass it by.
Thank you for your comment — it really made my day.
Everything I’ve said on this subject has had a dual role — speaking to Wolf, who presumably already knows what we’re talking about — and speaking to the community, who deserve to understand what Wolf’s abrupt move has done for their benefit.
Getting out from under WordPress.com is like escaping from North Korea. Everything is possible now.
Please forgive me if I’m giddy.
Wolfie, I meant to get back to you sooner about Kea but things got in the way. She is literally mute now on the new site. She says she has no box to place a comment or reply so she cannot say a thing. She’s on a laptop with Chrome browser.
Nor’easter says there’s a problem with the link to WP in his Jetpack. It logs him out and then he has trouble getting back in. And he can’t see his notifications in his sidebar and he can’t like the opening post. So he’s not totally dead in the water, but he is struggling to make it work.He uses a laptop with Safari.
Is there anything I can pass onto them to help them? If I could get Kea to be able to make comments then she could at least talk to you about her situation.
Thanks Wolfie. ❤❤❤❤❤
I just saw this – thanks – let me think about this.
Ask Kea if she can install the BRAVE browser. It’s based on Chrome, but it’s not Google. Google is starting to interfere with our technology, I think. Then have her TURN OFF Brave Shields for this site, which is as easy as clicking on the Lion icon.
I think Apple may also be interfering with things for Nor’easter. See if he can use reader mode on WordPress. Notifications work there.
Wi;; do!!!!!
I’ve had tech interfere with communications via email for over 5 years. Not all communications. Just key relationship where the party on the other end thought I was ghosting them, but my emails were getting dumped somewhere between my end and their end.
Yup. It’s a very sweet SCAM.
The add-ons have been purchased. Installation will be soon – likely this evening or tonight.